Off Topic The Politics Thread

[WBA2_QPR3]

It was reported this morning that the land offensive wouldn't happen if Hamas released the surviving hostages.
Everything that is happening right now is the fault of Hamas and their supporters and they are achieving exactly what they set out to do.

I don't know Col, I think that horse has bolted

Netanyahu has stated that the complete annihilation of Hamas is the only option now, so it would appear even if the hostages are released, they will still invade Gaza - they feel they have a mandate and US approval

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

Anyone?
Especially those repeatedly criticising the Israeli response on here.

I'm not a supporter of either regime Col but there are always options, especially given this is playing 100% into Irans hands

 

[rangercol]

In addition to the US carrier group the UK are sending two naval warships, surveillance aircraft and detachment of marines to the Eastern Mediterranean.
Sunak, whilst condemning the terrorist attacks on Israel has called for all possible measures to protect ordinary Palestinians and allow in humanitarian aid.
Egypt have reportedly sealed their border to prevent any Palestinian refugees escaping there.

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

Maybe the murder or concert goers and the taking of hostages should also be banned

Hamas have no defence for Saturdays terrorist attack, there has to be retribution for their actions. The issue as always is what is the 'right' response

 

[rangercol]

I don't know Col, I think that horse has bolted

Netanyahu has stated that the complete annihilation of Hamas is the only option now, so it would appear even if the hostages are released, they will still invade Gaza - they feel they have a mandate and US approval

Yep, probably.
Still wouldn't have happened at all without the terrorist slaughter and possibly not, had there been no hostages taken.

 

[rangercol]

I'm not a supporter of either regime Col but there are always options, especially given this is playing 100% into Irans hands

What alternative options?

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

In addition to the US carrier group the UK are sending two naval warships, surveillance aircraft and detachment of marines to the Eastern Mediterranean.
Sunak, whilst condemning the terrorist attacks on Israel has called for all possible measures to protect ordinary Palestinians and allow in humanitarian aid.
Egypt have reportedly sealed their border to prevent any Palestinian refugees escaping there.

No Col, the Egyptians have again confirmed the Rafah border crossing remains open, they just can't accommodate 2.3m refugees

 

[kiwiqpr]

Hamas have no defence for Saturdays terrorist attack, there has to be retribution for their actions. The issue as always is what is the 'right' response

Hamas were elected or whatever goes for elections there
Maybe they can be unelected

 

[rangercol]

No Col, the Egyptians have again confirmed the Rafah border crossing remains open, they just can't accommodate 2.3m refugees

As always....who to believe?

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

What alternative options?

I've been out of those circles for years Col but there are always options. So far this is going exactly as the Iranians wanted, so other ways to defuse the escalation and thousands of lives must always be explored

 

[kiwiqpr]

I've been out of those circles for years Col but there are always options. So far this is going exactly as the Iranians wanted, so other ways to defuse the escalation and thousands of lives must always be explored

Seems the only option is to destroy iran

 

[rangercol]

I've been out of those circles for years Col but there are always options. So far this is going exactly as the Iranians wanted, so other ways to defuse the escalation and thousands of lives must always be explored

But what other options?
Hamas and their supporters chose this route.
Meanwhile, the government
anti semitism advisor accuses the FA of sending a message that "Jews don't count", following the decision to not light the Wembley arch in the colours of Israel tonight.
I'm not a fan of too much virtue signalling, but considering the FA have set a long list of precedence in this regard, it does seem that yet again, antisemitism is rearing its ugly head.

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

As always....who to believe?

Well I would believe the Egyptian government seeing as they are aligned with the Palestinians -

The Peninsula -
Doha, Qatar: The Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) affirmed in an official statement on Thursday that the border crossing between Egypt and Gaza, known as the "Rafah Crossing", was operational and has not been closed.

The ministry stated: “The Arab Republic of Egypt, contrary to inaccurate information being circulated that is not grounded in reality, emphasizes that the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip is open and has not been closed at any point since the onset of the current crisis.”

And even our Mr Sunak seems to have woken up.at last to the potential disaster ahead -

Middle East Monitor-
British Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, on Thursday offered support to Egypt in maintaining the operational status of the Rafah border crossing into the Gaza Strip, Anadolu Agency reports.

The announcement came following a phone conversation between Prime Minister Sunak and Egyptian President, Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi, earlier today.

A spokesperson for 10 Downing Street issued a statement on the discussion, saying: “The Prime Minister expressed his condolences for the Egyptians who have lost their lives, along with so many others.”

The Prime Minister said that terrorism is an evil that must be confronted wherever it is found. It was also important that the conflict did not spread further. He noted the importance of Egypt’s historic role in the region, including its efforts in seeking de- escalation

According to the statement: “The Prime Minister acknowledged the challenging security situation at the Rafah border crossing. He offered the UK’s support to try to manage this situation and keep the route open for humanitarian and consular reasons, including for British nationals.

That said Col, Egypt doesn't want 2.3m refugees and are probably only allowing dual-nationals to cross at Rafah. Also, by accepting all and sundry they take the pressure off the Israelis to de-escalate.

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

Hamas were elected or whatever goes for elections there
Maybe they can be unelected

Hamas led an armed offensive against the previous party that governed Gaza - Fatah - and kicked them out to the West Bank. Fatah was riddled with corruption and the people had enough. Hamas is more fundamentally aligned with the Palestinians aspirations and they remain the only real option for Gaza residents to support

 

[rangercol]

Hamas led an armed offensive against the previous party that governed Gaza - Fatah - and kicked them out to the West Bank. Fatah was riddled with corruption and the people had enough. Hamas is more fundamentally aligned with the Palestinians aspirations and they remain the only real option for Gaza residents to support

They're going to regret that decision.

 

[rangercol]

Hamas led an armed offensive against the previous party that governed Gaza - Fatah - and kicked them out to the West Bank. Fatah was riddled with corruption and the people had enough. Hamas is more fundamentally aligned with the Palestinians aspirations and they remain the only real option for Gaza residents to support

Yes, one of our naval ships on the way is apparently a hospital ship.

I wonder if it's the myriad of large tunnels running into their territory that they're looking to close?

 

[WBA2_QPR3]

In Jordan, Blinken will meet Mahmoud Abbas the Fatah leader, seeing as the US has proscribed Hamas as a terrorist organisation and only holds talks through the Egyptians or Qataris. Abbas is ****ed, his people want him to fight for the Palestinians and the rest of the world want him to apologise for this weeks atrocities

Blinken will then shuttle to Doha to talk to the Qataris and most probably Hamas leadership through them - ostensibly to negotiate a hostage release

Just watched Lloyd Austin land in Israel, Biden throwing his top boys at this now to find a way out

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

But what other options?
Hamas and their supporters chose this route.
Meanwhile, the government
anti semitism advisor accuses the FA of sending a message that "Jews don't count", following the decision to not light the Wembley arch in the colours of Israel tonight.
I'm not a fan of too much virtue signalling, but considering the FA have set a long list of precedence in this regard, it does seem that yet again, antisemitism is rearing its ugly head.

Also, highly ironic that the morally-bankrupt BBC squirm that they won't take sides by calling Hamas terrorists, when in fact they are taking sides by not doing so. Hamas is a proscribed organisation and is therefore terrorist by law.

 

[Steelmonkey]

No Col, the Egyptians have again confirmed the Rafah border crossing remains open, they just can't accommodate 2.3m refugees

There's rumours that the Egyptian debt to the IMF ($32Billion??) may be written off as payment for accepting the Palestinians...

 

[QPRNUTS]

Unfortunately, innocent people and civilians get killed in war.
What would have been an acceptable response?

Col…that’s a good question. One that the Israeli government will have had contingency plans for. The only problem is that these plans all include using the preverbal sledge hammer. There is no simple solution anymore. This is a sh1te show.

The Palestinian’s are like a cornered rat. They have been treated horrendously for decades and the world largely ignores them mainly because of the Israeli - US political relations. The suffering they have endured is mind blowing. People can’t get their heads around this as the vast majority of their suffering has been brushed over by SKY, BBC, FOX etc etc. The Israeli’s have penned them in and slowly but surely are wiping them off the face of the earth. Is it any wonder when the world refused to listen that they turned to extremism!!!!
Now…..what has happened over the last few days is truly shocking. Indefensible. It seems small children were shot indiscriminately and Israeli solders beheaded. The war in Ukraine and the impending SA-Israeli normalisation talks had taken the eye of their cause and they needed to strike hard to bring the worlds focus back on their plight. They have achieved this.

I said in my first post that the US needed to act fast to prevent escalation. Unfortunately Biden showed his weakness. He was too emotive. They have been backtracking since. The Israeli’s don’t need any encouragement or green light. They will always do first and explain later. Locking millions of people up is not an acceptable foreign policy. US has foo*ed up again.

For anyone who knows the Gaza Strip there’s nowhere to go unless the Egyptians allow/facilitate entry to the Sinai Peninsula. Hamas have a very strong hold over the population and won’t let people go easily. That’s their human shield. They don’t care how many thousands will die. What’s the chances of the innocent Palestinian’s turning on Hamas….zero. The consequences would be huge. And meanwhile all Israel’s response is doing is ensuring the next generation of Hamas extremists.
Keep an eye on the north. If Hezbollah open up, this will escalate into a bigger nightmare.

Let me be clear, I’ll not in anyway condoning what these animals have done but Israel’s treatment of the ordinary Palestinian people over decades, has come back to bite them firmly on the ass