I agree. My point is that we ( U.K.) don’t have Migs. I also agree that Poland who border Belarus has to be careful of reprisals. Saying that if Russia attack Poland they would be smashed in a day.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Just seen a ‘low confidence’ US military estimate of between 2,000 and 4,000 Russian dead. That is such a wide margin of error that it might be easier just to say ‘we have no idea’.
For Ukrainian dead, their government says between 400 and 2000 civilians, as of yesterday the UN says 474 confirmed civilians, and the US estimates 1500 Ukrainian military deaths.
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I heard Blinken say openly they were considering with Poland, Poland sending Mig 29's to Ukraine and the US sending Poland similar planes to compensate. I was surprised he was saying this openly on TV.
If he’s done it then great, get rid. The Tories would have rallied behind him and been cheered on by sycophants like you.
So after all your previous posts you accept that Bercow was a #### and deserved to go? Cool that’s all that netter.
I’ve misread the last few pages of this thread and thought there were calls to send Mings to the Ukraine.
So, what have we, or more accurately I, learned so far?
For what it’s worth, from where I sit:
That if western liberal democracies, of which I am not, in theory, a massive fan, lose their grip, focus, whatever, something much worse starts taking liberties. And in practice, however hypocritical, venal, two faced, self serving and inept western liberal democracies, or the people who run them, are, I prefer living in one to what seem to be the usual alternatives.
That the Russian military seems to be very well equipped, and is brilliant at slaughtering civilians, but not so good up against other military organisations. Or in organising supply lines, from what we have seen.
That a man, Zelensky, can achieve iconic status simply by refusing to run away.
That, for a country with such a short history and such a mixed identity, Ukrainians, even lots of Russian speaking ones, have a powerful urge not to be bullied.
That the media plays an essential role in situations like these, but our lack of respect for the third estate, often justified, and the impact of technology gone mad giving us endless sources of opinion (but very few of information) has undermined the ability to trust what we see and hear, perhaps fatally.
That, although we have to recognise history and see both sides of a story, accept that there is no simple ‘good v bad’ etc, for me it’s important to pick a side, and there is only one side to pick in this conflict. It’s Putin v Ukraine, and it’s vital not only for Ukrainians but also the rest of us, that they survive.
Prediction? This ends with the end of Putin. But that could also end in the complete collapse of the already basket case Russian economy and society and the West has to have a plan to help without humiliating in these circumstances, to prevent anarchy and the possible emergence of a fragmented continent of heavily armed, indeed nuclear armed, rogue states.
Usual meanderings after/during wine drinking. Apologies, using the board to think. These are indeed interesting times.
For what it’s worth, from where I sit:
That if western liberal democracies, of which I am not, in theory, a massive fan, lose their grip, focus, whatever, something much worse starts taking liberties. And in practice, however hypocritical, venal, two faced, self serving and inept western liberal democracies, or the people who run them, are, I prefer living in one to what seem to be the usual alternatives.
That the Russian military seems to be very well equipped, and is brilliant at slaughtering civilians, but not so good up against other military organisations. Or in organising supply lines, from what we have seen.
That a man, Zelensky, can achieve iconic status simply by refusing to run away.
That, for a country with such a short history and such a mixed identity, Ukrainians, even lots of Russian speaking ones, have a powerful urge not to be bullied.
That the media plays an essential role in situations like these, but our lack of respect for the third estate, often justified, and the impact of technology gone mad giving us endless sources of opinion (but very few of information) has undermined the ability to trust what we see and hear, perhaps fatally.
That, although we have to recognise history and see both sides of a story, accept that there is no simple ‘good v bad’ etc, for me it’s important to pick a side, and there is only one side to pick in this conflict. It’s Putin v Ukraine, and it’s vital not only for Ukrainians but also the rest of us, that they survive.
Prediction? This ends with the end of Putin. But that could also end in the complete collapse of the already basket case Russian economy and society and the West has to have a plan to help without humiliating in these circumstances, to prevent anarchy and the possible emergence of a fragmented continent of heavily armed, indeed nuclear armed, rogue states.
Usual meanderings after/during wine drinking. Apologies, using the board to think. These are indeed interesting times.
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Fascinating times, although terrifying at the same time. The wider picture, taking in all the history between these two nations is very interesting. If you can take a step back and look at it from a totally neutral point of view, you can understand some of Putins logic. He's seen the west eradicate his buffer zone by assimilating Eastern European states into NATO and the EU, seen agitators cause uprisings when leaders don't fit the "Liberal Democracy" agenda of the West, both in Eastern Europe and North Africa, He's been pandered to by successive US and UK governments, among others and failures in their foreign policies had led him to think that the West wouldn't react to his latest venture - in a way, he's right as at the moment we won't be taking direct action, but I don't think he realised how much international opinion would be against him, and the level of sanctions heaped on Russia will be crippling.
What his actions have shown is that his plan was ill conceived. Did he always plan to invade, or was he forced into it by the leaks of US intelligence saying that he was and then couldn't back down without losing face? His troops aren't quite as battle ready as he thought, and his logistics train is laughable. His intelligence was way off, as the Ukranian populace have put up a much stiffer resistance than he expected, The big question is how long can he drag this out for before losing face at home? It's becoming increasingly difficult to see a way out for him, but what fills the void he leaves behind will need careful monitoring as they will have access to the nuclear arsenal too. It's potentially an opportunity to bring Russia into an alliance with the progressive countries in Eastern Europe, but there's plenty of regions within the country that Islamic Jihadists would like to take over, and it's Putins hand that is keeping them at bay.
As you say, interesting times....
Lots of ifs buts and maybes in that piece
“We are looking actively now at the question of airplanes that Poland may provide to Ukraine and looking at how we might be able to backfill should Poland decide to supply those planes,” he told reporters on Sunday during a visit to Moldova. “I can’t speak to a timeline but I can just say we’re looking at it very, very actively.”
One mention of Priti Patel and you go all weak at the knees
Hopefully there will still be Dominoes at the Kremlin shortly.
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They’ve just said on the news that McDonalds, Coca-Cola and Starbucks are only temporarily shutting their Russian concerns whilst continuing to pay some 62,000 staff. Would be a bit like a furlough, won’t it? Real statement that.
Oh, and yes, Ugli Patel should resign. Shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near a position of responsibility in the first place.
In other news, Sting has said his days of playing million dollar private gigs to Russian oligarchs are over too. The sacrifices some people make leaves you stunned, doesn’t it? I’m Driven To Tears.
Oh, and yes, Ugli Patel should resign. Shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near a position of responsibility in the first place.
In other news, Sting has said his days of playing million dollar private gigs to Russian oligarchs are over too. The sacrifices some people make leaves you stunned, doesn’t it? I’m Driven To Tears.