Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

Yes, I know.

How would you suggest Putin can be stopped?

Relentless and long term degrading of the Russian economy and oligarch assets, and maintaining the red lines set by NATO to the letter. Arming Ukraine resistance. Possibly putting economic pressure on China to use its good offices to rein Putin back.

 

[Stroller]

Wheres all those planes the Europeans are sending

US says working ‘actively’ with Poland to send jets to Ukraine | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

Where's all the British help for Ukrainian refugees?

 

[Stroller]

Relentless and long term degrading of the Russian economy and oligarch assets, and maintaining the red lines set by NATO to the letter. Arming Ukraine resistance. Possibly putting economic pressure on China to use its good offices to rein Putin back.

And not being scared.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

And not being scared.

That's a given.

 

[rangercol]

Ben Wallace, Defence Secretary, on the wireless saying ‘we are not going to be scared of Putin’. From where I stand, given that Putin is a madman with nuclear weapons, a bit of fear might be sensible, help us form an appropriate strategy.

He's clearly not going to state publicly that we're 'scared of Putin' is he?
What kind of strategy is that?

In private everyone will be scared of what this murderous nutter might do.

 

[sb_73]

He's clearly not going to state publicly that we're 'scared of Putin' is he?
What kind of strategy is that?

In private everyone will be scared of what this murderous nutter might do.

Did you hear the interview Col? It came across as pure schoolboy braggadocio. There was no need for him to say anything of the sort. If you know and I know that everyone in their right mind will be scared of what this maniac might do, there’s no shame in letting that fact sit quietly in the background, informing decisions.

I actually think Wallace is one of the stronger members of the cabinet, he doesn’t need to play to the gallery because I think he knows his stuff. Let’s hope he has an accurate understanding of the actual strength of our armed forces.

 

[sb_73]

Nato is a defensive alliance. In order to enforce a no fly zone over a non-member, it would have to shoot down Russian aircraft. It would be acting beyond its remit, and it could be seen as an act of aggression.

NATO did this in Bosnia. No member states involved and arguably less of a threat to NATO members. Difference is Serbia didn’t have nukes.

Still, it doesn’t really matter what we think.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

NATO did this in Bosnia. No member states involved and arguably less of a threat to NATO members. Difference is Serbia didn’t have nukes.

Still, it doesn’t really matter.

Yes, and right there you see the deterrent effect of nuclear weapons.

 

[rangercol]

Did you hear the interview Col? It came across as pure schoolboy braggadocio. There was no need for him to say anything of the sort. If you know and I know that everyone in their right mind will be scared of what this maniac might do, there’s no shame in letting that fact sit quietly in the background, informing decisions.

I actually think Wallace is one of the stronger members of the cabinet, he doesn’t need to play to the gallery because I think he knows his stuff. Let’s hope he has an accurate understanding of the actual strength of our armed forces.

Admittedly I didn't see the interview, but everyone will have been briefed on what to say and what not to say.
Publicly admitting being scared of Putin doesn't seem sensible to me.
I would of thought that he does have an accurate understanding of our armed forces and their strengths.
All our armed forces have been criminally underfunded over recent years and this latest war may just show the powers that be that we do still need more conventional forces.
We already have enough nuclear capability.
Our special forces are second to none and are currently, I believe, on standby along with US Navy Seals to get the President out of Ukraine. Not that I think he'll go.

At the moment I think our strategy is about right. It's not easy when one wrong move could trigger WW3. A no fly zone patrolled by NATO aircraft will never happen for that reason.

I'd add that this government have been disgraceful in their acceptance of Russian money and in their failure to let fleeing Ukrainians into the country.

 

[rangercol]

NATO did this in Bosnia. No member states involved and arguably less of a threat to NATO members. Difference is Serbia didn’t have nukes.

Still, it doesn’t really matter what we think.

An absolutely key difference though no?

 

[sb_73]

An absolutely key difference though no?

Of course, and I’m not criticising the actual strategy. It’s just that to say there is not a ‘no fly zone’ because of the defensive nature of the NATO pact is bull. There is no NATO enforced ‘no fly zone’ over Ukraine because of the potential consequences, which were absent in Serbia.

Regarding Wallace I don’t think I made myself clear. There was no need to say anything at all about being scared or not of Putin, no one was pressing him on it. It really jumped out at me which is why I commented on it. Let’s see how many other government members come out with the same line before assuming it’s what they are briefed to say.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

World-beating

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[sb_73]

World-beating

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The sarcasm in Easton’s report on the news made me laugh out loud. He described what Priti Patel called ‘a massive surge’ in visa capacity in Calais as ‘three officials, a box of ready salted crisps and a box of kitkats. And they don’t have the authority to issue visas’. And he had video footage to prove it.

Open war between the BBC news organisation and the cabinet now, no matter what government stooge is appointed Director General. It’ll end badly for the BBC, and really isn’t what they should be doing, although this was funny (not of course for the Ukrainian families who had travelled to get there and were then told to go and wait a week in Paris)

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The sarcasm in Easton’s report on the news made me laugh out loud. He described what Priti Patel called ‘a massive surge’ in visa capacity in Calais as ‘three officials, a box of ready salted crisps and a box of kitkats. And they don’t have the authority to issue visas’. And he had video footage to prove it.

Open war between the BBC news organisation and the cabinet now, no matter what government stooge is appointed Director General. It’ll end badly for the BBC, and really isn’t what they should be doing, although this was funny (not of course for the Ukrainian families who had travelled to get there and were then told to go and wait a week in Paris)

Good. Someone, somewhere has to hold this nonce government to account no matter how many shy Tories cry about bias. It’s not bias to call corrupt incompetent shysters the corrupt incompetent shysters they are.

 

[Staines R's]

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Out of curiosity…..any news on Ukrainian losses ? Can’t see any figures mentioned

 

[Steelmonkey]

Out of curiosity…..any news on Ukrainian losses ? Can’t see any figures mentioned

Ask a Russian, they'll tell you thousands...

I've no idea, couldn't find anything either - doesn't mean it's not out there though. Probably quite difficult to get an accurate picture as I'd imagine each region is acting independantly under local command structure. Comms will be down to a minimum to stop any Tel Int being intercepted

 

[sb_73]

Out of curiosity…..any news on Ukrainian losses ? Can’t see any figures mentioned

I saw something like 300 civilians ‘likely to be an underestimate’. Just like these figures are likely to be a huge overestimate. Not really the circumstances to get an accurate picture, though it wouldn’t t surprise me if the Russians have lost quite a few vehicles due to their tactic of running out of fuel and parking up in an orderly file in the middle of the open road.

 

[Stroller]

World-beating

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The sarcasm in Easton’s report on the news made me laugh out loud. He described what Priti Patel called ‘a massive surge’ in visa capacity in Calais as ‘three officials, a box of ready salted crisps and a box of kitkats. And they don’t have the authority to issue visas’. And he had video footage to prove it.

Open war between the BBC news organisation and the cabinet now, no matter what government stooge is appointed Director General. It’ll end badly for the BBC, and really isn’t what they should be doing, although this was funny (not of course for the Ukrainian families who had travelled to get there and were then told to go and wait a week in Paris)

I heard on the radio this morning the relative, living in the UK, of some Ukrainian refugees who'd managed to get to Sofia and were told by the British Embassy there that the earliest appointment they could give them to review their visa application was March 29th!

 

[sb_73]

One for @rangercol (we’ll agree on this one!). For reasons beyond my comprehension I was watching the One Show the other day and they had Victoria Derbyshire on, praising her ‘news’ coverage of the Ukraine war, which is apparently very popular with a certain demographic. She explained that she tries to keep everything very simple and doesn’t show any visuals because ‘many people have told me that they have never lived through anything like this before and I don’t want to upset them with violent images’.

Well, here’s the thing Vicky. War is violent and the innocent suffer, and by actual violence, not just pictures of it. Although it upset me deeply the image of the woman and her two small children dead by mortar fire in Irpin was about the most important picture I have seen so far, because it makes this **** real, these are people just like us, and I applaud the BBC and other outlets for showing it. Patronising people by shielding them from unpleasantness does not do them or any one else any favours Vicky. If you know what the violent death of innocent people looks like are you more or less likely to try and stop it happening? Getting upset can be positive.

Brought into even starker relief this morning when I opened up LinkedIn and the first post was from a software company called SE Ranking, based in Palo Alto, California, but with a lot of operations in Ukraine. The post was to remember their chief accountant, Tatiana Perebeinis, and her two children, Alise and Nikita. They were the real people killed in Irpin, the images of which has moved so many of us. I hope knowing their names won’t upset too many people.

 

[Steelmonkey]

One for @rangercol (we’ll agree on this one!). For reasons beyond my comprehension I was watching the One Show the other day and they had Victoria Derbyshire on, praising her ‘news’ coverage of the Ukraine war, which is apparently very popular with a certain demographic. She explained that she tries to keep everything very simple and doesn’t show any visuals because ‘many people have told me that they have never lived through anything like this before and I don’t want to upset them with violent images’.

Well, here’s the thing Vicky. War is violent and the innocent suffer, and by actual violence, not just pictures of it. Although it upset me deeply the image of the woman and her two small children dead by mortar fire in Irpin was about the most important picture I have seen so far, because it makes this **** real, these are people just like us, and I applaud the BBC and other outlets for showing it. Patronising people by shielding them from unpleasantness does not do them or my one else any favours Vicky. If you know what the violent death of innocent people looks like are you more or less likely to try and stop it happening? Getting upset can be positive.

Brought into even starker relief this morning when I opened up LinkedIn and the first post was from a software company called SE Ranking, based in Palo Alto, California, but with a lot of operations in Ukraine. The post was to remember their chief accountant, Tatiana Perebeinis, and her two children, Alise and Nikita. They were the real people killed in Irpin, the images of which has moved so many of us. I hope knowing their names won’t upset too many people.

If her audience don't like it, they can turn over to Homes Under the Hammer or some other brain dead ****e. There's no shying away from the brutality of war - but where was Vickys coverage of tee civil war in Eastern Ukraine before this started, or Syria, Chechnya, Yemen, Cameroon? Are we so appalled just because it's in Europe? Russia bombed the **** out of Syria, and hardly anyone turned an eye, committed countless atrocities in Chechnya, picking one set of Jihadists to back against another, and now employing them.in Eastern Ukraine to commit further atrocities (although if reports are to believed, they may have suffered significant casualties).