Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Not sure I agree with this take. I think most people did stick to the COVID rules, or at the very least did their very best to and only breached them without intending too. I can only think of one incident when we knowingly broke the rules - which is when a neighbour's house was robbed and we let them into our house briefly as they were badly shaken up by the experience. I think most people can understand that this is on a difference scale from hosting a party when the rest of the country is only allowed to meet on a 1-1 basis outside. I also think it's entirely fair to hold Johnson - who is setting these rules for the whole country to abide by - to a higher standard than any random member of Joe Public. The likes of Prof Ferguson understand this, and as he has some level of personal integrity, knew he had to resign from his position when he was found to have breached the rules he was part of setting.

As ever, Finkelstein puts it more eloquently than me: "Jacob Rees Mogg says both inaccurately and intellectually offensively that this is a row about cake - this is a row about whether govts are subject to the laws they set, which is a far more profound question than about birthday cake."

The contrast between the leadership demonstrated by The Queen and Boris Johnson is damning too. The Govt offered to bring forward changes to rules around funerals to allow her to grieve for her husband of over 70 years standing alongside her family. She declined their offer as she understands the importance of demonstrating leadership in her actions. Boris and those in number 10, meanwhile, had numerous parties.

As for knife crime, the model set up and run in Glasgow was highly effective, reducing knife crime by quite a high % [I'd have to look up exact figures] after the introduction of the Violence Reduction Unit (VRU) in the mid-2000s. Essentially they looked to move this away from being a 'crime' issue and to look at the issue holistically, across schools, youth clubs, social workers, hospitals, prisons, other community organisations, and of course the police. This approach enabled them to engage with those at risk of committing (or being on the receiving end of) knife crime in a way the police could never do alone. It's about treating knife crime first and foremost as a public health crisis and acting accordingly. This the only solution that can work in London too - and London has set up its on VRU, but it needs a heck of a lot more funding and prioritisation for it to work. [As an aside, this is the type of intervention that 'defund the police' in short-hand for, but that gets deliberately misconstrued, which is an unhelpful tangential argument about nomenclature that takes up more air-time than it should.]

A very well thought out post, Thankyou.
However I disagree with your assumption that most stuck to the rules…my thoughts and view is that most really didnt. But of course there is no way to prove that one way or another.

Great post on knife crime….can’t really add anything if note other than I agree totally.
 
Still makes you a hypocrite though Strolls. However much you try and sugar coat it.

How so? I said at the time that some of the rules (laws) didn't make sense and still think that. That doesn't disbar me from criticising the man that made the rules for believing that they shouldn't apply to him. I didn't always abide by the rules, but then I wasn't going round telling everyone else that they had to. Quite a big distinction, wouldn't you say?

To be fair, I've changed my views on restrictions and lockdowns so often, I'm quite dizzy.
 
A very well thought out post, Thankyou.
However I disagree with your assumption that most stuck to the rules…my thoughts and view is that most really didnt. But of course there is no way to prove that one way or another.

Great post on knife crime….can’t really add anything if note other than I agree totally.

It's not something one can conclusively prove, but you only had to do your one allowed walk in Lockdown 1 to see how quiet the streets and shops were. You will have seen hundreds of stories (and no doubt examples in your day job) of people dying alone as family couldn't visit, or weddings and funerals limited to 15 or 30. Even if only half (which I'd say is a massive low ball) of people obeyed the rules - with wide ranging ramifications for those individuals - I'd say it's a big deal for the people setting those rules to ignore them.

How was the run? I've had patellar tendonitis for the last two years since doing a half marathon so had to switch to cycling. Tried two 5kms in the last few weeks which didn't leave me in pain which is awesome.
 
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Buts it’s nothing you didn’t know Wills…..
Did you honestly, cross your heart and hope to die, stick to the COVID rules completely ?
Of course I’ll never know one way or the other, however I’d be willing to bet a tidy sum that you didn’t…..and I don’t think many did by the end.

Anyway, how would you tackle knife crime that seems so prevalent amongst the youth in Britain ? Or don’t you find that disturbing ?
Did you see about the 15 year old lad who was stabbed yesterday in Finsbury Park ? The kid who did it was 14……bad eh ?

Or do you only care about what the posh Tory twat spent on a Victoria sponge ?

Im going out for a run…..

Glasgow had a very big problem not all that long ago with knife crime it’s worth reading up on how it was tackled up there
 
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Buts it’s nothing you didn’t know Wills…..
Did you honestly, cross your heart and hope to die, stick to the COVID rules completely ?
Of course I’ll never know one way or the other, however I’d be willing to bet a tidy sum that you didn’t…..and I don’t think many did by the end.

Anyway, how would you tackle knife crime that seems so prevalent amongst the youth in Britain ? Or don’t you find that disturbing ?
Did you see about the 15 year old lad who was stabbed yesterday in Finsbury Park ? The kid who did it was 14……bad eh ?

Or do you only care about what the posh Tory twat spent on a Victoria sponge ?

Im going out for a run…..

Yes we know what they are like my point being is now this is hitting a lot wider a field including some of their voter base.
 
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The parties thing isn’t a matter of what the rules were, who organised what, who knew about what, how various meetings are defined for me. I don’t care what Gray or the police say. If it’s about anything it’s about leadership, and how much contempt our leaders have for the rest of us, and I don’t need any more evidence on the weakness and venality of our current political leadership, thanks.

Oh, but look at that, here’s some new evidence. The economic crime bill, the one which was supposed to stop billionaires money laundering, using shell companies, preventing unverified directorships on companies house registers, illicit foreign ownership of British property etc etc which all cost the U.K. billions in direct fraud and lost tax revenue, has been dropped. On the orders of Number 10. Despite Johnson promising the US that there would be action taken in 2022 only last December.

So, we will proudly retain our status as a haven for crooks and money launderers for a bit longer. Who told Johnson to behave himself and not to bite the hand that feeds him? Sounds like the sort of thing the unofficial king of Belize and former deputy Chairman of the Tory Party ‘Lord’ Ashcroft would do. I have no evidence of course…..

In better news the US is coordinating a ‘gas alliance’ to try to ensure that Europe will not freeze if Putin destroys his own economy by cutting off supplies. Good move. The sanction that will work, excluding Russia from the international banking system, will apparently be viewed as an ‘act of war’ by Putin. Welcome to the game of chicken 2022 style. Potential purges of Ukrainians (and others) deemed to be ‘pro Russian’ on the cards as lists of names are published on line. Welcome to the 1930s.
 
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How so? I said at the time that some of the rules (laws) didn't make sense and still think that. That doesn't disbar me from criticising the man that made the rules for believing that they shouldn't apply to him. I didn't always abide by the rules, but then I wasn't going round telling everyone else that they had to. Quite a big distinction, wouldn't you say?

To be fair, I've changed my views on restrictions and lockdowns so often, I'm quite dizzy.

Its easy….you’re criticising the twat Johnson for breaking the rules that you also were happy to break…..it just makes you a hypocrite. we all are in some way, shape or form.
 
It's not something one can conclusively prove, but you only had to do your one allowed walk in Lockdown 1 to see how quiet the streets and shops were. You will have seen hundreds of stories (and no doubt examples in your day job) of people dying alone as family couldn't visit, or weddings and funerals limited to 15 or 30. Even if only half (which I'd say is a massive low ball) of people obeyed the rules - with wide ranging ramifications for those individuals - I'd say it's a big deal for the people setting those rules to ignore them.

How was the run? I've had patellar tendonitis for the last two years since doing a half marathon so had to switch to cycling. Tried two 5kms in the last few weeks which didn't leave me in pain which is awesome.

The run was ok but feeling it now….3rd 6.5 mile run in 3 days as trying to get my weekly mileage in before Friday and back to work. I hate having to run after a 12 hour shift, especially when cold and dark.
I think the cowbell squats I did yesterday hurt more…..my inner thighs are killing me :(
 
Its easy….you’re criticising the twat Johnson for breaking the rules that you also were happy to break…..it just makes you a hypocrite. we all are in some way, shape or form.

You don't seem to be paying attention, mate. I really can't do any more to set out the difference between my own behaviour and that of the Prime Minister, so If you still insist on continuing to call me a hypocrite, knock yourself out.

You do seem to be very defensive of Johnson, have you still go your Brexit blindfold on?
 
You don't seem to be paying attention, mate. I really can't do any more to set out the difference between my own behaviour and that of the Prime Minister, so If you still insist on continuing to call me a hypocrite, knock yourself out.

You do seem to be very defensive of Johnson, have you still go your Brexit blindfold on?

Nice little dig there Strolls….no defence of Johnson the man or his party from me. Can’t stand the ****s and as I’ve told you before, I’ve joined the WPB (We despise Labour just as much as the Tories)
But if you wanna come at Brexit after all this time from your Neo-Liberal point of view then crack on…..after all, you really need some poor **** to serve you your coffee in Pret ;)
 
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Nice little dig there Strolls….no defence of Johnson the man or his party from me. Can’t stand the ****s and as I’ve told you before, I’ve joined the WPB (We despise Labour just as much as the Tories)
But if you wanna come at Brexit after all this time from your Neo-Liberal point of view then crack on…..after all, you really need some poor **** to serve you your coffee in Pret ;)

I'm comfortable in my political skin Stainesy, which is categorically not Neo-Liberal (look up the definition of the term). You, however, seem rather conflicted.
 
Hopefully it will mate….just a shame it’s taken something as petty as a birthday party for people to wake up to what a **** Johnson is

It’s the sheer number of breaches that show the utter contempt they have and believe their supporters will excuse whatever they do.