Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Staines R's]

Its not like Joe Bloggs having his mates round, it’s the figurehead of those implementing the rules overseeing his staff and himself breach the rules a reported 17 times we are aware of 7 or 8 that he attended himself, then proceeding to lie about it making a complete mockery of the situation.

The one really telling thing bizarrely comes back to that **** Cummings.. it was odd at the time Johnson and his cohorts defended him, but we now know it’s because he was aware of numerous breaches that involved Johnson… so Johnson was well aware there were wrong doings and tried to hide them as the public would have gone crazy.

Does anyone REALLY care ? Let’s be honest, it isn’t the biggest wrong doing that’s been done by the Government and seems to me just a way for the pious amongst us to drone on about rule breaking and the like, when if we were all honest……very few stuck to the rules completely.
You all know Boris and his cronies look down on the public and have always had a ‘one rule for them’ attitude….so is this just a stick to beat them with, or are you that outraged that some posh twats had a party ?

Surely there’s more important things going on in this country and the world than Boris and his ****in’ parties……kids are still stabbing each other over ****in’ postcodes, we could be on the brink of war and inflation is rising……aren’t those sort of things more important than cuddly ****chops Johnson and his birthday cake?

 

[Willhoops]

I think you are getting a bit carried away here Wills. Most of the people that defended Cummings weren’t at the party’s . Cummings left No 10 in the Jan and Prince Phillip died in the April?
Truth is Boris had some gatherings ( which is wrong). He apologised and wants to get on with important issues. like I said before, there is an orchestrated campaign to remove him from No 10. A witch-hunt that is starting to backfire. The only voices now are the usual lot who want him gone.

Putting aside you not giving a **** that there are a reported 17+ breaches, 7+ that Johnson attended where people were unable to see loved ones whilst in their final moments.

Do you honestly believe that Johnson’s defence of Cummings had nothing to do with him knowing about Johnson’s breaches?

Yes they have got other things they should be dealing with but here we are, you call it a witch hunt… others might say if they would have followed their own rules there wouldn’t be anything to report on. It just shows the contempt this government has for the public.

 

[Willhoops]

Does anyone REALLY care ? Let’s be honest, it isn’t the biggest wrong doing that’s been done by the Government and seems to me just a way for the pious amongst us to drone on about rule breaking and the like, when if we were all honest……very few stuck to the rules completely.
You all know Boris and his cronies look down on the public and have always had a ‘one rule for them’ attitude….so is this just a stick to beat them with, or are you that outraged that some posh twats had a party ?

Surely there’s more important things going on in this country and the world than Boris and his ****in’ parties……kids are still stabbing each other over ****in’ postcodes, we could be on the brink of war and inflation is rising……aren’t those sort of things more important than cuddly ****chops Johnson and his birthday cake?

It’s a matter of trust and accountability. Most of the crap they get away with doesn’t resonate with a lot of the public. However when they see this lot taking this piss whilst their loved ones die and they can’t say goodbye it hits home. They only have themselves to blame, they are a prime example of using populist politics… this is part of it.

 

[ELLERS]

Putting aside you not giving a **** that there are a reported 17+ breaches, 7+ that Johnson attended where people were unable to see loved ones whilst in their final moments.

Do you honestly believe that Johnson’s defence of Cummings had nothing to do with him knowing about Johnson’s breaches?

Yes they have got other things they should be dealing with but here we are, you call it a witch hunt… others might say if they would have followed their own rules there wouldn’t be anything to report on. It just shows the contempt this government has for the public.

People are starting to get bored of it all Wills. do you remember me giving Jezza a rough ride? Well he will be back in frontline politics soon. Will anybody care? No not even me.
Far more important things going on in the World then if Boris had one or two candles on a cake.
The people will be his judge at the next election.

 

[Stroller]

Does anyone REALLY care ? Let’s be honest, it isn’t the biggest wrong doing that’s been done by the Government and seems to me just a way for the pious amongst us to drone on about rule breaking and the like, when if we were all honest……very few stuck to the rules completely.
You all know Boris and his cronies look down on the public and have always had a ‘one rule for them’ attitude….so is this just a stick to beat them with, or are you that outraged that some posh twats had a party ?

Surely there’s more important things going on in this country and the world than Boris and his ****in’ parties……kids are still stabbing each other over ****in’ postcodes, we could be on the brink of war and inflation is rising……aren’t those sort of things more important than cuddly ****chops Johnson and his birthday cake?

There are millions that do REALLY care about not being able to see their dying loved ones, or not being able to have proper funerals for them, whilst Johnson and his pals are pissing it up and making fools out of them. There are many that are now beating themselves up for abiding by the rules when those that made them were taking the piss. This won't be forgotten and Johnson should go for the sake of the Tory party (or should that be Tory work event?), but more importantly for the good of the country.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Its not like Joe Bloggs having his mates round, it’s the figurehead of those implementing the rules overseeing his staff and himself breach the rules a reported 17 times we are aware of 7 or 8 that he attended himself, then proceeding to lie about it making a complete mockery of the situation.

The one really telling thing bizarrely comes back to that **** Cummings.. it was odd at the time Johnson and his cohorts defended him, but we now know it’s because he was aware of numerous breaches that involved Johnson… so Johnson was well aware there were wrong doings and tried to hide them as the public would have gone crazy.

I was really commenting on the police investigation alone. I don't see it resulting in anything more than the Gray Report will throw up, so it's not that exciting.

I can't see your point about Johnson wanting to keep Cummings pissing out of the tent and not into it. After all, Boris did sack him. Why, if Cummings had all this damning evidence against him?

I think it highly likely Cummings is the source of the drip drip of bad stuff on parties coming out. But ultimately, it may be senior civil servants that lose their job, as the organisers of these events.

Boris will have to face criticism that he presided over a culture of ill discipline, and he will have to show he did not lie to Parliament if he wants to keep his premiership.

 

[Staines R's]

It’s a matter of trust and accountability. Most of the crap they get away with doesn’t resonate with a lot of the public. However when they see this lot taking this piss whilst their loved ones die and they can’t say goodbye it hits home. They only have themselves to blame, they are a prime example of using populist politics… this is part of it.

Buts it’s nothing you didn’t know Wills…..
Did you honestly, cross your heart and hope to die, stick to the COVID rules completely ?
Of course I’ll never know one way or the other, however I’d be willing to bet a tidy sum that you didn’t…..and I don’t think many did by the end.

Anyway, how would you tackle knife crime that seems so prevalent amongst the youth in Britain ? Or don’t you find that disturbing ?
Did you see about the 15 year old lad who was stabbed yesterday in Finsbury Park ? The kid who did it was 14……bad eh ?

Or do you only care about what the posh Tory twat spent on a Victoria sponge ?

Im going out for a run…..

 

[Staines R's]

There are millions that do REALLY care about not being able to see their dying loved ones, or not being able to have proper funerals for them, whilst Johnson and his pals are pissing it up and making fools out of them. There are many that are now beating themselves up for abiding by the rules when those that made them were taking the piss. This won't be forgotten and Johnson should go for the sake of the Tory party (or should that be Tory work event?), but more importantly for the good of the country.

Wasn’t it you not that long ago blatantly stating you weren’t gonna stick by the rules Stroller ? Guess you ain’t one of the millions then

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

do you remember me giving Jezza a rough ride? Well he will be back in frontline politics soon. Will anybody care? .

Starmer will care. I should think it's the last thing he needs right now

 

[Stroller]

Wasn’t it you not that long ago blatantly stating you weren’t gonna stick by the rules Stroller ? Guess you ain’t one of the millions then

I didn't always stick to the rules, no. But then I didn't make them.

 

[Staines R's]

I didn't always stick to the rules, no. But then I didn't make them.

You're a hypocrite then mate….fair enough.

 

[ELLERS]

As a Tory I would say ‘what a bunch of tw@ts’. It was disrespectful and stupid… we know what people in power are like. Starmer isn’t even in power and broke the rules! The TV presenters and newspaper reporters that are spending every minute on this story broke rules… even some of my friends broke the rules. The rules were bullsh#t anyway.
Agree those who make these rules should also abide by them.
They didn’t, they apologised we await results of an inquiry and we move on.
If people are unhappy then vote them out at the next election.

 

[Stroller]

You're a hypocrite then mate….fair enough.

The hypocrite is in Number 10.

I thought some of the rules were daft, so didn't always follow them to the letter, but millions did because that **** was going on TV telling them they had to. They made it law, for ****'s sake.

 

[ELLERS]

Starmer will care. I should think it's the last thing he needs right now

Agree Jezza seems to be getting quite a bit of support. On Twitter his supporters are becoming more vocal while Starmer gets slated.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Buts it’s nothing you didn’t know Wills…..
Did you honestly, cross your heart and hope to die, stick to the COVID rules completely ?
Of course I’ll never know one way or the other, however I’d be willing to bet a tidy sum that you didn’t…..and I don’t think many did by the end.

Anyway, how would you tackle knife crime that seems so prevalent amongst the youth in Britain ? Or don’t you find that disturbing ?
Did you see about the 15 year old lad who was stabbed yesterday in Finsbury Park ? The kid who did it was 14……bad eh ?

Or do you only care about what the posh Tory twat spent on a Victoria sponge ?

Im going out for a run…..

Not sure I agree with this take. I think most people did stick to the COVID rules, or at the very least did their very best to and only breached them without intending too. I can only think of one incident when we knowingly broke the rules - which is when a neighbour's house was robbed and we let them into our house briefly as they were badly shaken up by the experience. I think most people can understand that this is on a difference scale from hosting a party when the rest of the country is only allowed to meet on a 1-1 basis outside. I also think it's entirely fair to hold Johnson - who is setting these rules for the whole country to abide by - to a higher standard than any random member of Joe Public. The likes of Prof Ferguson understand this, and as he has some level of personal integrity, knew he had to resign from his position when he was found to have breached the rules he was part of setting.

As ever, Finkelstein puts it more eloquently than me: "Jacob Rees Mogg says both inaccurately and intellectually offensively that this is a row about cake - this is a row about whether govts are subject to the laws they set, which is a far more profound question than about birthday cake."

The contrast between the leadership demonstrated by The Queen and Boris Johnson is damning too. The Govt offered to bring forward changes to rules around funerals to allow her to grieve for her husband of over 70 years standing alongside her family. She declined their offer as she understands the importance of demonstrating leadership in her actions. Boris and those in number 10, meanwhile, had numerous parties.

As for knife crime, the model set up and run in Glasgow was highly effective, reducing knife crime by quite a high % [I'd have to look up exact figures] after the introduction of the Violence Reduction Unit (VRU) in the mid-2000s. Essentially they looked to move this away from being a 'crime' issue and to look at the issue holistically, across schools, youth clubs, social workers, hospitals, prisons, other community organisations, and of course the police. This approach enabled them to engage with those at risk of committing (or being on the receiving end of) knife crime in a way the police could never do alone. It's about treating knife crime first and foremost as a public health crisis and acting accordingly. This the only solution that can work in London too - and London has set up its on VRU, but it needs a heck of a lot more funding and prioritisation for it to work. [As an aside, this is the type of intervention that 'defund the police' in short-hand for, but that gets deliberately misconstrued, which is an unhelpful tangential argument about nomenclature that takes up more air-time than it should.]

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Agree Jezza seems to be getting quite a bit of support. On Twitter his supporters are becoming more vocal while Starmer gets slated.

Yes, at a time when the Tories are split over Partygate, Jezza could turn up like a bad penny and cause a split within Labour ranks by rallying the hard left

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Not sure I agree with this take. I think most people did stick to the COVID rules, or at the very least did their very best to and only breached them without intending too. I can only think of one incident when we knowingly broke the rules - which is when a neighbour's house was robbed and we let them into our house briefly as they were badly shaken up by the experience. I think most people can understand that this is on a difference scale from hosting a party when the rest of the country is only allowed to meet on a 1-1 basis outside. I also think it's entirely fair to hold Johnson - who is setting these rules for the whole country to abide by - to a higher standard than any random member of Joe Public. The likes of Prof Ferguson understand this, and as he has some level of personal integrity, knew he had to resign from his position when he was found to have breached the rules he was part of setting.

As ever, Finkelstein puts it more eloquently than me: "Jacob Rees Mogg says both inaccurately and intellectually offensively that this is a row about cake - this is a row about whether govts are subject to the laws they set, which is a far more profound question than about birthday cake."

The contrast between the leadership demonstrated by The Queen and Boris Johnson is damning too. The Govt offered to bring forward changes to rules around funerals to allow her to grieve for her husband of over 70 years standing alongside her family. She declined their offer as she understands the importance of demonstrating leadership in her actions. Boris and those in number 10, meanwhile, had numerous parties.

As for knife crime, the model set up and run in Glasgow was highly effective, reducing knife crime by quite a high % [I'd have to look up exact figures] after the introduction of the Violence Reduction Unit (VRU) in the mid-2000s. Essentially they looked to move this away from being a 'crime' issue and to look at the issue holistically, across schools, youth clubs, social workers, hospitals, prisons, other community organisations, and of course the police. This approach enabled them to engage with those at risk of committing (or being on the receiving end of) knife crime in a way the police could never do alone. It's about treating knife crime first and foremost as a public health crisis and acting accordingly. This the only solution that can work in London too - and London has set up its on VRU, but it needs a heck of a lot more funding and prioritisation for it to work. [As an aside, this is the type of intervention that 'defund the police' in short-hand for, but that gets deliberately misconstrued, which is an unhelpful tangential argument about nomenclature that takes up more air-time than it should.]

Yes, JRM's cake point might work if there hadn't been other parties. In other words, Boris was ambushed with a birthday cake. Most people would accept that a cake presented on someone's birthday at work is not a party. But of course, there were other parties.

The question, which hopefully Gray will answer, is the extent to which Boris Johnson organised or if not, knew about and consented to, all these parties. There is one fundamental difference between what happened at no 10 to the Ferguson case however. The people at No 10 were all working in proximity to one another (assuming no one was invited from outside) whereas Ferguson allowed a third party, his mistress, into his home.

I've no doubt all this came about because of a climate of ill discipline at No 10 created at the top ie Boris Johnson. Whether allowing such a climate to exist is a resigning matter, or whether responsibility lies solely with those civil servants who took advantage of the climate, remains to be seen.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Yes, JRM's cake point might work if there hadn't been other parties. In other words, Boris was ambushed with a birthday cake. Most people would accept that a cake presented on someone's birthday at work is not a party. But of course, there were other parties.

The question, which hopefully Gray will answer, is the extent to which Boris Johnson organised or if not, knew about and consented to, all these parties. There is one fundamental difference between what happened at no 10 to the Ferguson case however. The people at No 10 were all working in proximity to one another (assuming no one was invited from outside) whereas Ferguson allowed a third party, his mistress, into his home.

I've no doubt all this came about because of a climate of ill discipline at No 10 created at the top ie Boris Johnson. Whether allowing such a climate to exist is a resigning matter, or whether responsibility lies solely with those civil servants who took advantage of the climate, remains to be seen.

I do accept that the Ferguson case is not identikit, with the important difference you highlight, but I also don't buy the 'working together anyway' excuse either. My work hasn't had any social events when we've been required to be in the office, and none of my friends of family - many of whom work in the NHS - have been allowed to socalise with colleagues beyond sharing lunch (or dinner for the evening shifts). I think your point on culture is right and important.

Resigning issue or not, it's clear that this whole issue has irrevocably damaged Johnson in the eyes of much of the electorate now and the 'charm' he had had dissipated. People see him as 'one of them' now rather than as an outsider who will shake things up. And if he can't deliver for those Tory MPs electorally they will wield the knife (pun intended Staines) at some point soon...

I'd personally prefer him to stay on until the election and get humiliated then, but I can't see him lasting that long.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I do accept that the Ferguson case is not identikit, with the important difference you highlight, but I also don't buy the 'working together anyway' excuse either. My work hasn't had any social events when we've been required to be in the office, and none of my friends of family - many of whom work in the NHS - have been allowed to socalise with colleagues beyond sharing lunch (or dinner for the evening shifts). I think your point on culture is right and important.

Resigning issue or not, it's clear that this whole issue has irrevocably damaged Johnson in the eyes of much of the electorate now and the 'charm' he had had dissipated. People see him as 'one of them' now rather than as an outsider who will shake things up. And if he can't deliver for those Tory MPs electorally they will wield the knife (pun intended Staines) at some point soon...

I'd personally prefer him to stay on until the election and get humiliated then, but I can't see him lasting that long.

Agree, the "working together" point mitigates but doesn't absolve.

As to irrevocable damage, the Gray Report will have relevance, though some will have made up their own minds. If Gray points no finger at Boris beyond ill disciplined culture, I still believe Boris could come through with the appointment of a new broom in No 10, particularly if a new act intervenes. If Putin invades Ukraine and Boris shines, he could survive and win the next election with a greatly reduced majority. At the other end of the scale, if he has lied to or materially misled Parliament, he's dead meat.

So for now, we await Gray...and Putin...

 

[Staines R's]

The hypocrite is in Number 10.

I thought some of the rules were daft, so didn't always follow them to the letter, but millions did because that **** was going on TV telling them they had to. They made it law, for ****'s sake.

Still makes you a hypocrite though Strolls. However much you try and sugar coat it.