Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
sb_73 said:
China already has Hong Kong (and Macau). The dissidents have left or shut up. In the ‘elections’ last December only (Chinese) ‘patriots’ were allowed to stand, and they were vetted and approved. There is no free press, even the ultra rich with a voice, like Jimmy Lai, are banged up. The judicial system is completely debased, and the police along with it. It’s is only nominally separate from China because the Chinese currency, the renminbi, is not freely exchangeable and the HK $ is, so it provides a clearing house (and a way for the Chinese leadership to launder their money). It’s a ****ing tragedy.

The British offer to HK citizens of a route to U.K. citizenship is at least a practical offer of escape from dictatorship. 3 million Hong Kong people and their dependents (a total of 5 million) are eligible and they have been applying to come at the rate of 2,500 a week since January last year. This is the UKs fastest growing community (much bigger than asylum seekers and illegal immigrants). Apparently a lot have moved to Sutton.

They might not invade Taiwan proper but they could occupy some of the many islands close to Taiwan, and also get a few more in the South China Sea claimed by them, Vietnam and the Philippines. But if they do have a pop at Taiwan, remember that only 15 countries recognise Taiwan as a sovereign state, and the US, U.K. and EU countries are not among them (if you are interested they are Guatemala, Honduras, Haiti, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Eswatini, Tuvalu, Nauru, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Marshall Isalnds, Palau, and the Vatican City). To me, this is tacit acceptance of Beijing’s claim to sovereignty, and certainly no guarantee that an attack will be met with anything other than words and sanctions.
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Such a shame about Hong Kong. I have been there a dozen times and loved the place.
 
Willhoops said:
That’s your opinion, what I’ve noticed in the last couple of years, especially relating to the pandemic is he’s called for action, Johnson mocked him… only to do a u turn, too late where there’s been no benefit and it’s the reason life’s were lost unnecessarily. Not just once but time and time again.
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What it's my opinion that he wanted a second referendum? Would you be happy if you voted for something, won the vote and some slimey lawyer wanted to take that away from you? I think not Wills. Seriously you need to stop being anti tory for a minute and look at the facts. The biggest vote in history as well. Sorry but I don't want to be like China and Co.
 
ELLERS said:
What it's my opinion that he wanted a second referendum? Would you be happy if you voted for something, won the vote and some slimey lawyer wanted to take that away from you? I think not Wills. Seriously you need to stop being anti tory for a minute and look at the facts. The biggest vote in history as well. Sorry but I don't want to be like China and Co.
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you said Starmer made the wrong calls at the wrong times
 
sb_73 said:
I hope not. But we are talking about totalitarian nutters who have very thin skins and a very old fashioned attitude to territory.
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They have, but I'm not convinced either are 'nutters'.
Putin in particular, is a cold eyed, calculating, ruthless son of a bitch.
Having said that, I wouldn't put anything past him.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
The problem was, he quoted the Chamberlain related quotation, in the name of God, go, which by definition isn't original.

Geoffrey Howe had the original imagery of Thatcher sending her cricket opening batsmen out to the crease having broken their bats first!
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I thought he was quoting Cromwell?
 
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rangercol said:
They have, but I'm not convinced either are 'nutters'.
Putin in particular, is a cold eyed, calculating, ruthless son of a bitch.
Having said that, I wouldn't put anything past him.
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I know what you mean, and agree they are not swivel eyed carpet chewing screamers. But, for me, anyone who dedicates themselves to entirely dominating entire populations and accepting no debate or opposition in the process is at the wrong end of my ‘normality’ spectrum.

I hope they are both calculating to the extent that they won’t take mad risks. I fear that if either are pushed into a corner - likely by internal opposition, which Xi is apparently terrified of - they could lash out madly. The alternative to being the dictator for these guys is being imprisoned, poisoned or shot I guess.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
You're right, it did originate from Cromwell to a C17th Parliament, but it was also said by an MP to Neville Chamberlain and this was whom Davis said he was quoting.
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I thought it was deliberate by Davis. He named Leo Amery, who said the phrase to Chamberlain. Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill, of course, and that's who Johnson likes to think he is.
 
Stroller said:
I thought it was deliberate by Davis. He named Leo Amery, who said the phrase to Chamberlain. Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill, of course, and that's who Johnson likes to think he is.
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Think it was what he implied over who said it to who. Rather Johnson stayed now though cos its going to ruin them.
 
bobmid said:
I wasnt aware you could just defect to another party. Surely a by-election would be the fairest thing. His constituents voted Tory (silly them) .
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His defection will cause a problem for Labour as he already getting stick for his previous voting and what about Lucy Burke (Lab) who came second? The best thing to do is resign and hold a by-election which he would probably win.
 
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ELLERS said:
His defection will cause a problem for Labour as he already getting stick for his previous voting and what about Lucy Burke (Lab) who came second? The best thing to do is resign and hold a by-election which he would probably win.
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Probably not as much as a problem than it is for the Tories though
 
bobmid said:
Probably not as much as a problem than it is for the Tories though
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Well that’s where you are wrong because I have just been listening to the news and they are saying his defection has actually ‘stiffened’ the resolve to stay with Boris. It’s like a QPR supporter joining the ranks of Chelsea. It won’t weaken QPR.
He is a nobody anyway… five minutes of fame and will disappear soon.
 
ELLERS said:
Well that’s where you are wrong because I have just been listening to the news and they are saying his defection has actually ‘stiffened’ the resolve to stay with Boris. It’s like a QPR supporter joining the ranks of Chelsea. It won’t weaken QPR.
He is a nobody anyway… five minutes of fame and will disappear soon.
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Labour wants the Tories to stay with Johnson.
 
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