Off Topic The Politics Thread

[bobmid]

So what I’m getting at is the report itself can be as critical as you like, I’m still unsure what influence Johnson has over Gray’s position and potential for career advancement, but ultimately it will be the conservatives who will implement anything off the back of, and any actions would include… the leader of that party.

He should get Cummings back he’s good at putting spin on anything, I’m sure he’d do a job on the findings.

Is it any coincidence that it all has gone tits up for Johnson since his fall out with Cummings?

 

[kiwiqpr]

When will they be apologizing to everyone else


Downing Street apologises to Queen over lockdown parties

Downing Street has apologised to Buckingham Palace for two staff parties in No 10 the night before Prince Philip's funeral.

The gatherings, first reported by The Telegraph, took place on 16 April 2021 and went on until the early hours.

The PM's spokesman said it was "deeply regrettable that this took place at a time of national mourning".

Boris Johnson was not at either party - but he faces questions over alleged Covid rule-breaking at No 10.


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[Willhoops]

Is it any coincidence that it all has gone tits up for Johnson since his fall out with Cummings?

it does feel like a Teflon layer has been removed

 

[Willhoops]

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[Stroller]

Right the source here will instantly be dismissed by some people but if what he’s saying about the reporting line I’d share the concerns raised. As far as I can see the only way Johnson will be held to any real level of accountability is by Torys themselves who will all want damage limitation to the parties reputation. A further concern there is if you are ambitious and feel Johnson should be moved on, your decision as to what you say or do might be swayed due to the worry that if he stays on .. let’s face it you aren’t getting on the front bench anytime soon if you’ve been very critical.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-sue-gray-investigation-b1992264.html

Boris Johnson has asked somebody who reports to Boris Johnson to conduct an investigation into the actions of Boris Johnson and those in his office. The report will be handed to Boris Johnson. How can this possibly be considered to be an independent investigation?

I imagine Sue Gray's findings will indeed be made public, but does anyone suppose that Johnson won't have seen her report first and potentially influenced the final version?

 

[Willhoops]

Boris Johnson has asked somebody who reports to Boris Johnson to conduct an investigation into the actions of Boris Johnson and those in his office. The report will be handed to Boris Johnson. How can this possibly be considered to be an independent investigation?

I imagine Sue Gray's findings will indeed be made public, but does anyone suppose that Johnson won't have seen her report first and potentially influenced the final version?

So it smells fishier than one of baldricks apple crumbles

 

[sb_73]

I don’t get all the emphasis on the Gray investigation.

Surely, for the party which has been the focus of discussion for the last few days, there is nothing to investigate, all the evidence is out there?

The rules at the time were you could only meet one person from outside your family/home group outside at any time. Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden had said exactly this on the telly on the day of the party.

Key workers could hold ‘essential meetings’. But even if people at 10 Downing Street are classified as key workers, there is documentary evidence, in the form of the email invitation, that this was not an ‘essential meeting’. It was an invitation for drinks, not work. If there is any doubt on this let’s see the minutes of the work meeting (decades ago I was a civil servant. Everything is minuted).

Other documentary evidence shows that several of those who received the invitation immediately doubted that it was within the guidance or wise. In fact most didn’t attend.

Witnesses have said that Johnson was there, with his partner, and did not close the gathering down. He later, and repeatedly, denied attending any events/parties etc at 10 Downing Street. Until a couple of days ago.

What can Gray add to this, unless she will be commenting on habitual lying? She might have stuff on the many other gatherings of course, but in this instance the rules were clearly and knowingly broken. She should be irrelevant , but the more people mither on about ‘independence’ and reporting lines and so on, the more hangs on her conclusions. Surely those who want Johnson to go should be saying ‘we don’t care about Gray, answer the case that is in the public forum now’, and more importantly making sure Tory party members and voters are talking about it as well.

It’s a banal and stupid situation, but the issue is not the details around the party, but ‘one rule for them, another for us’. If this is established, the Tory party gets to decide what happens, rather than parliament, such is the way our democracy works.

 

[bobmid]

Boris Johnson has asked somebody who reports to Boris Johnson to conduct an investigation into the actions of Boris Johnson and those in his office. The report will be handed to Boris Johnson. How can this possibly be considered to be an independent investigation?

I imagine Sue Gray's findings will indeed be made public, but does anyone suppose that Johnson won't have seen her report first and potentially influenced the final version?

What legal powers does this sue gray have to get the truth out of a serial liar? I mean he bullshitted his own ethics advisor only a few weeks ago. It all stinks to be honest

 

[Willhoops]

I don’t get all the emphasis on the Gray investigation.

Surely, for the party which has been the focus of discussion for the last few days, there is nothing to investigate, all the evidence is out there?

The rules at the time were you could only meet one person from outside your family/home group outside at any time. Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden had said exactly this on the telly on the day of the party.

Key workers could hold ‘essential meetings’. But even if people at 10 Downing Street are classified as key workers, there is documentary evidence, in the form of the email invitation, that this was not an ‘essential meeting’. It was an invitation for drinks, not work. If there is any doubt on this let’s see the minutes of the work meeting (decades ago I was a civil servant. Everything is minuted).

Other documentary evidence shows that several of those who received the invitation immediately doubted that it was within the guidance or wise. In fact most didn’t attend.

Witnesses have said that Johnson was there, with his partner, and did not close the gathering down. He later, and repeatedly, denied attending any events/parties etc at 10 Downing Street. Until a couple of days ago.

What can Gray add to this, unless she will be commenting on habitual lying? She might have stuff on the many other gatherings of course, but in this instance the rules were clearly and knowingly broken. She should be irrelevant , but the more people mither on about ‘independence’ and reporting lines and so on, the more hangs on her conclusions. Surely those who want Johnson to go should be saying ‘we don’t care about Gray, answer the case that is in the public forum now’, and more importantly making sure Tory party members and voters are talking about it as well.

It’s a banal and stupid situation, but the issue is not the details around the party, but ‘one rule for them, another for us’. If this is established, the Tory party gets to decide what happens, rather than parliament, such is the way our democracy works.

I agree the evidence appears as clear as day, however when you’ve got people that defend the indefensible you have no option but to have an official investigation.

It goes both ways though, so say for instance one of these many labour shindigs is exposed, I’m still waiting on those by the way, no evidence or any reports so far, seems just to be those who implemented the rules see fit to break them. Well if they are, or any questionable incident, the answer is simply wait for the report.

oh there was that video of Starmer that was posted on here, despite several requests for evidence of date and context… nothing has been provided, so we can only assume it’s a desperate attempt to distract from Conservative rule breaking and the video was taken when gatherings of that size were permitted otherwise they’d provide what was requested.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I’m as bored with the subject of Boris as I am of Djokovic and Ponce Andrew.

Hopefully these hinted at further revelations coming out in a paper over the weekend will move the needle sufficiently for Johnson to resign and we can begin the process of getting better leadership… although none of the cabinet fill me with much enthusiasm.

We deserve better.

 

[Steelmonkey]

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[Stroller]

I don’t get all the emphasis on the Gray investigation.

Surely, for the party which has been the focus of discussion for the last few days, there is nothing to investigate, all the evidence is out there?

The rules at the time were you could only meet one person from outside your family/home group outside at any time. Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden had said exactly this on the telly on the day of the party.

Key workers could hold ‘essential meetings’. But even if people at 10 Downing Street are classified as key workers, there is documentary evidence, in the form of the email invitation, that this was not an ‘essential meeting’. It was an invitation for drinks, not work. If there is any doubt on this let’s see the minutes of the work meeting (decades ago I was a civil servant. Everything is minuted).

Other documentary evidence shows that several of those who received the invitation immediately doubted that it was within the guidance or wise. In fact most didn’t attend.

Witnesses have said that Johnson was there, with his partner, and did not close the gathering down. He later, and repeatedly, denied attending any events/parties etc at 10 Downing Street. Until a couple of days ago.

What can Gray add to this, unless she will be commenting on habitual lying? She might have stuff on the many other gatherings of course, but in this instance the rules were clearly and knowingly broken. She should be irrelevant , but the more people mither on about ‘independence’ and reporting lines and so on, the more hangs on her conclusions. Surely those who want Johnson to go should be saying ‘we don’t care about Gray, answer the case that is in the public forum now’, and more importantly making sure Tory party members and voters are talking about it as well.

It’s a banal and stupid situation, but the issue is not the details around the party, but ‘one rule for them, another for us’. If this is established, the Tory party gets to decide what happens, rather than parliament, such is the way our democracy works.

It's Johnson and his sycophants that are putting all the emphasis on Gray, not those that want to see him gone. Every question is met with the 'let's wait for Sue Gray's report'. Johnson is pinning his hopes on Gray not being able to conclusively state that he himself broke the rules and coming up with some handy scapegoats that definitely did (Martin Reynolds is the obvious fall-guy). He couldn't give a **** about anyone else involved, but seems to think that he himself can somehow walk away relatively unscathed.

Gray should be irrelevant - everybody knows he's guilty as **** - but they're making her relevant to drag the whole thing out.

 

[bobmid]

It's Johnson and his sycophants that are putting all the emphasis on Gray, not those that want to see him gone. Every question is met with the 'let's wait for Sue Gray's report'. Johnson is pinning his hopes on Gray not being able to conclusively state that he himself broke the rules and coming up with some handy scapegoats that definitely did (Martin Reynolds is the obvious fall-guy). He couldn't give a **** about anyone else involved, but seems to think that he himself can somehow walk away relatively unscathed.

Gray should be irrelevant - everybody knows he's guilty as **** - but they're making her relevant to drag the whole thing out.

Exactly this

 

[sb_73]

It's Johnson and his sycophants that are putting all the emphasis on Gray, not those that want to see him gone. Every question is met with the 'let's wait for Sue Gray's report'. Johnson is pinning his hopes on Gray not being able to conclusively state that he himself broke the rules and coming up with some handy scapegoats that definitely did (Martin Reynolds is the obvious fall-guy). He couldn't give a **** about anyone else involved, but seems to think that he himself can somehow walk away relatively unscathed.

Gray should be irrelevant - everybody knows he's guilty as **** - but they're making her relevant to drag the whole thing out.

Yep, but a quick track back on this thread shows that it’s mostly the more left of centre/anti Tory posters who have written most about Gray. Not sure if this is true in the wider world but if so it’s a trap, the deflection is working. Soon we’ll be in ‘how dare you question the integrity of a senior civil servant’ territory, which is exactly what they want. Of course this ignores the fact that the previous people charged with investigating - Case and Reynolds - had to disbar themselves as they were implicated in the partying.

Well, look at that, another leaving drinks pops up, somebody called Kate Josephs. I think they are flooding the media now so they can say ‘hey, there were 56 parties, but Johnson only went to one, and that was an essential working party’.

 

[bobmid]

Yep, but a quick track back on this thread shows that it’s mostly the more left of centre/anti Tory posters who have written most about Gray. Not sure if this is true in the wider world but if so it’s a trap, the deflection is working. Soon we’ll be in ‘how dare you question the integrity of a senior civil servant’ territory, which is exactly what they want. Of course this ignores the fact that the previous people charged with investigating - Case and Reynolds - had to disbar themselves as they were implicated in the partying.

Well, look at that, another leaving drinks pops up, somebody called Kate Josephs. I think they are flooding the media now so they can say ‘hey, there were 56 parties, but Johnson only went to one’.

Sue gray is due to publish her findings in 2048 due to the sheer number of parties to investigate

 

[Stroller]

Yep, but a quick track back on this thread shows that it’s mostly the more left of centre/anti Tory posters who have written most about Gray. Not sure if this is true in the wider world but if so it’s a trap, the deflection is working. Soon we’ll be in ‘how dare you question the integrity of a senior civil servant’ territory, which is exactly what they want. Of course this ignores the fact that the previous people charged with investigating - Case and Reynolds - had to disbar themselves as they were implicated in the partying.

Well, look at that, another leaving drinks pops up, somebody called Kate Josephs. I think they are flooding the media now so they can say ‘hey, there were 56 parties, but Johnson only went to one, and that was an essential working party’.

The one I'm looking forward to hearing about is the party that Carrie threw in the PMs flat to celebrate Cummings being ****ed out.

 

[bobmid]

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Got a work meeting next week, best stock up.
I mean which gullible fools fall for this?

 

[Willhoops]

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Got a work meeting next week, best stock up.
I mean which gullible fools fall for this?

oh come on Bob they are clearly fancy holders for your pens.

 

[bobmid]

oh come on Bob they are clearly fancy holders for your pens.

What an absolute disgrace. They werent parties at all, they all just drink heavily at work.

 

[bobmid]

A Conservative association in a safe Tory seat in the West Midlands has voted unanimously to withdraw its support from Boris Johnson.

The prime minister is facing calls to resign from the opposition and some Tory MPs after admitting attending drinks in the Downing Street garden.

Simon Ward, from the Royal Sutton Coldfield Conservative Association, said "the culture starts at the top".

The damage this idiot is doing to the party must really infuriate those who vote for them.