Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

My old next door neighbour who is no longer with us, fought in both world wars, hated the fact he was awarded medals for being sent into battle. Raised over 100k for all sorts of charities, left all his worldly belongings and his house to be auctioned for the sick children's trust (as it is now known). With cancer in his late 80's attempted Ben Nevis, never quite made it up but tried albeit aided. What a guy. That's just one of many I know from a similar generation. Theres also a young 9 year old girl with terminal cancer near us, raising money with sponsored all sorts for the cancer research fund. The bravest little girl ever! They are everywhere up and down the country but get little to no media attention.

Sounds a fantastic man. But in some ways, Captain Tom represented him and others. Clearly he had media savvy otherwise he would not have made £32m. And I never heard him say anything which did not hit home in a big way, so MSM loved him. He's a great example, who became an international name. Hopefully, it inspires others to do similar

 

[Staines R's]

My old next door neighbour who is no longer with us, fought in both world wars, hated the fact he was awarded medals for being sent into battle. Raised over 100k for all sorts of charities, left all his worldly belongings and his house to be auctioned for the sick children's trust (as it is now known). With cancer in his late 80's attempted Ben Nevis, never quite made it up but tried albeit aided. What a guy. That's just one of many I know from a similar generation. Theres also a young 9 year old girl with terminal cancer near us, raising money with sponsored all sorts for the cancer research fund. The bravest little girl ever! They are everywhere up and down the country but get little to no media attention.

The fact is though Bob, that the people you mention, do reach the public eye. These sort of people are on the last part of the news bulletins most days.
I agree there are many out there who have done the same, if not more than SIR Tom, however I just think he caught the spirit of the country at the time and was like a beacon of light that most of us could inspire to.
I’ll admit, it made no sense for me to be upset over an old guy who I’d never met......but I really was.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

That’s where we are different then Goldie, which ain’t a problem, however I thing it is pretty dumb to believe and be outraged by a story in the MSM without delving further into it and finding out the truth.
You make the point very well when you refer to Michael Foots ‘scruffiness’..........I would suggest that Labour needs to do more than ‘dressing smartly’ to win back the working class.

Paul Emberys book sets it out superbly..........

Paul Embery's a smart guy. I've heard him speak and agreed with everything he was saying.

You come back to MSM and I agree with you. But it's not MSM but social media where the damage is done from an ill thought out placard. MSM have duty to give background and can't show something out of context. There are no such constraints on social media and that is where the damage is done

 

[qprbeth]

People aren't necessarily dumb. They simply see an image which plays into what they know/believe about a political party and they aren't interested in looking any deeper. And the damage is done...

Image is vital, which is why we're seeing the Labour Party changing tack, and moving to use of the Union flag and have representatives dressing smartly to win back Red Wall voters. This is the opposite of the Michael Foot scruffiness and Jeremy Corbyn's no border approach, but these have been seen to fail . What Starmer doesn't need now is any of his front bench turning up to jeans and a T shirt with PLO or IRA emblazoned on it

What I really hate is all those zoom press conferences from politicians homes...with a union jack prominent in the background

I mean who has a flag in their living room or home office.

( Okay....you've got me there ...I did a scientific briefing zoom meeting from my batcave with a QPR playoff final flag in the background...I would respect Gove more...if he did the same)

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

What I really hate is all those zoom press conferences from politicians homes...with a union jack prominent in the background

I mean who has a flag in their living room or home office.

( Okay....you've got me there ...I did a scientific briefing zoom meeting from my batcave with a QPR playoff final flag in the background...I would respect Gove more...if he did the same)

I'd love to see our play off final flag behind Gove!

Yes, agree, there can be overuse of the flag. We'll leave that to the US politicians.

 

[ELLERS]

They need to do the exact opposite of splitting. The Tories cover the entire right wing vote apart from when the far right play up a bit and then they go further right to extinguish them for a bit.

In contrast, other parties are scrapping with each other for the same voters. The result is absolute control for a party with a minority share of the vote. If they could band together and not compete in seats they know they can’t win but one of the others would have a chance then there’d an actual chance of forming a coalition government and binning FPTP.

It won’t ever happen though.

Exactly that ain't gonna happen mate.
you keep saying the Tories are right wing but to be honest most of the Tories I know are actually more centre. Remember by saying that, you are implying that the people who voted Tory at the last election (the seats that Starmer needs to win back) are somehow right-wing? That is not correct. Most are just hard working people. Your problem is that because someone voted Brexit they have to be some right-wing knuckle dragger which is wrong.
Labour lost the last election because 1. betraying the voters over Brexit. 2. Had ridiculous policies. 3. Most importantly had that idiot Corbyn as leader. Seriously, what decent person would vote for that antisemite/terrorist loving 2222? He was never going to be elected.
Going forward, for me Labour has the same sort of problems. Captain Hindsight is better than Jezza but people aren't warming to him. His stance on Brexit will come back to haunt him (however bad Brexit is going). The Labour Party 'hindsight' tag has now become a common joke all over. The Labour support for the failed Welsh lockdown and the support for the EU vaccine procurement scheme will also come up in the future. I can't see Starmer ever being PM.

 

[Staines R's]

Paul Embery's a smart guy. I've heard him speak and agreed with everything he was saying.

You come back to MSM and I agree with you. But it's not MSM but social media where the damage is done from an ill thought out placard. MSM have duty to give background and can't show something out of context. There are no such constraints on social media and that is where the damage is done

I really do recommend Emberys book.....he puts into words my views and feeling far more eloquently than I ever could.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I really do recommend Emberys book.....he puts into words my views and feeling far more eloquently than I ever could.

I must read it. He struck me as forward thinking

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Exactly that ain't gonna happen mate.
you keep saying the Tories are right wing but to be honest most of the Tories I know are actually more centre. Remember by saying that, you are implying that the people who voted Tory at the last election (the seats that Starmer needs to win back) are somehow right-wing? That is not correct. Most are just hard working people. Your problem is that because someone voted Brexit they have to be some right-wing knuckle dragger which is wrong.
Labour lost the last election because 1. betraying the voters over Brexit. 2. Had ridiculous policies. 3. Most importantly had that idiot Corbyn as leader. Seriously, what decent person would vote for that antisemite/terrorist loving 2222? He was never going to be elected.
Going forward, for me Labour has the same sort of problems. Captain Hindsight is better than Jezza but people aren't warming to him. His stance on Brexit will come back to haunt him (however bad Brexit is going). The Labour Party 'hindsight' tag has now become a common joke all over. The Labour support for the failed Welsh lockdown and the support for the EU vaccine procurement scheme will also come up in the future. I can't see Starmer ever being PM.

The Tories are right wing but will happily present themselves as anything they have to be to win votes. They’ll be the great guardians of the economy next after pursuing a policy for years they knew from their own analysis would do huge damage to the economy. The king is dead, long live the king.

People who voted purely to ‘get Brexit done’ at the expense of everything else affecting their lives aren’t necessarily right wing. Stupid ****s, probably, but not necessarily right wing. Corbyn gave people another huge reason/excuse to be shy Tories. If they really want to vote this lot back in after their handling of the country over Starmer then at some point they have to own the right wing tag even if they don’t like to admit it.

 

[Staines R's]

I must read it. He struck me as forward thinking

Can I ask a genuine question ? Your reference to Michael Foot being scruffy....was that in relation to the supposed “donkey jacket” thing so latched upon by the media ? If so then it emphasises my point entirely......more media manipulation that has become “the truth”

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Can I ask a genuine question ? Your reference to Michael Foot being scruffy....was that in relation to the supposed “donkey jacket” thing so latched upon by the media ? If so then it emphasises my point entirely......more media manipulation that has become “the truth”

It was partly that. I recall Foot had an image of a clever but slightly nutty professor. His hair was always all over the place, he was keen on brown suits and cardigans which were all a bit too informal for the electorate. Policies aside, he didn't come across as a serious representative of our country around the world. He really never got off first base. Spitting image showed him as a scarecrow.The MSM may have shot at him, but he provided a lot of the ammunition

 

[ELLERS]

The Tories are right wing but will happily present themselves as anything they have to be to win votes. They’ll be the great guardians of the economy next after pursuing a policy for years they knew from their own analysis would do huge damage to the economy. The king is dead, long live the king.

People who voted purely to ‘get Brexit done’ at the expense of everything else affecting their lives aren’t necessarily right wing. Stupid ****s, probably, but not necessarily right wing. Corbyn gave people another huge reason/excuse to be shy Tories. If they really want to vote this lot back in after their handling of the country over Starmer then at some point they have to own the right wing tag even if they don’t like to admit it.

I was going to apologise because you didn't actually say the Tories were right-wing but you have now.
What do you mean 'handling of the country'? They were a new government and only in power for 4 weeks when they got hit with Covid. You cannot blame them for a pandemic... or maybe you can. As for the handling of it... that is being discussed on the 'Covidcast' thread. Just make sure you show you anti-government pass on the way in.
I also disagree with the 'get Brexit done' remark. For me it showed that we still have decent people in this country who saw our democracy at risk and wouldn't put up with it.
As for Brexit I am sure we can debate that again.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I was going to apologise because you didn't actually say the Tories were right-wing but you have now.
What do you mean 'handling of the country'? They were a new government and only in power for 4 weeks when they got hit with Covid. You cannot blame them for a pandemic... or maybe you can. As for the handling of it... that is being discussed on the 'Covidcast' thread. Just make sure you show you anti-government pass on the way in.
I also disagree with the 'get Brexit done' remark. For me it showed that we still have decent people in this country who saw our democracy at risk and wouldn't put up with it.
As for Brexit I am sure we can debate that again.

If you’re just going to pretend the years of Tory rule before this latest incarnation shouldn’t count then at least don’t bang on constantly about Blair and Corbyn. What good have the done over the last decade?

The handling of Covid has in so many ways been objectively dire. Just because they didn’t literally create it doesn’t mean they’re beyond criticism (or praise) for their response. Just shouting “anti-government” doesn’t change the basic facts and figures.

Brexit consequences are emerging more and more weekly albeit you have to dig a little to find them if you immerse yourself in right wing propaganda publications.

 

[Stroller]

It was partly that. I recall Foot had an image of a clever but slightly nutty professor. His hair was always all over the place, he was keen on brown suits and cardigans which were all a bit too informal for the electorate. Policies aside, he didn't come across as a serious representative of our country around the world. He really never got off first base. Spitting image showed him as a scarecrow.The MSM may have shot at him, but he provided a lot of the ammunition

Boris Johnson, on the other hand.....

 

[Staines R's]

It was partly that. I recall Foot had an image of a clever but slightly nutty professor. His hair was always all over the place, he was keen on brown suits and cardigans which were all a bit too informal for the electorate. Policies aside, he didn't come across as a serious representative of our country around the world. He really never got off first base. Spitting image showed him as a scarecrow.The MSM may have shot at him, but he provided a lot of the ammunition

But that’s the thing....the donkey jacket episode was entirely made up by the right wing press at the time....along with his supposed ‘scruffiness’. But now of course it’s been passed down and has somehow become fact. All manipulation.

 

[ELLERS]

Captain Hindsight just told a porky about the EU vaccine program.

 

[ELLERS]

If you’re just going to pretend the years of Tory rule before this latest incarnation shouldn’t count then at least don’t bang on constantly about Blair and Corbyn. What good have the done over the last decade?

The handling of Covid has in so many ways been objectively dire. Just because they didn’t literally create it doesn’t mean they’re beyond criticism (or praise) for their response. Just shouting “anti-government” doesn’t change the basic facts and figures.

Brexit consequences are emerging more and more weekly albeit you have to dig a little to find them if you immerse yourself in right wing propaganda publications.

I will respond mate. I am just watching PMQs.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I will respond mate. I am just watching PMQs.

I know. I read your commentary to get a quick unbiased summary without having to go through the drudgery of watching it myself.

 

[Staines R's]

I know. I read your commentary to get a quick unbiased summary without having to go through the drudgery of watching it myself.

Wrong answer Bracknell.......You were meant to say “Wow, what an intelligent, well read fellow you are.....but how do you have time to watch such a thing when you have all your nurse/soldier/scientist/neighbour friends to talk to, whilst reading 19th century Russian literature ? ”

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Wrong answer Bracknell.......You were meant to say “Wow, what an intelligent, well read fellow you are.....but how do you have time to watch such a thing when you have all your nurse/soldier/scientist/neighbour friends to talk to, whilst reading 19th century Russian literature ? ”

I did go round for a dinner party once but it was impossible to speak to all 700 guests.