Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Willhoops]

Was that the one at Spurs ?

Nope the New Wembley, you might be that random bloke I hugged at the playoff final after the Zamora moment for all I know haha. I'm guessing you aren't the sombrero fella, I'd have assumed that was TED!!!

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Absolutely mate. Pointless putting up statistics as they can be manipulated to whatever suits your/our argument, and as you say, it isn’t can change any minds on here.

As you say, I myself can only talk from my personal experiences and the experiences of those close to me and those that I know.

Personally I think things are changing for the good, we’re not back in the bad old days of the National Front where working class white kids were suckered in and thought they were joining a righteous cause to win back their country, or the days of the SPG and bullying OB who stopped anyone who was black JUST BECAUSE they were black. Or the days when it was alright for Blacks, Asians, gays and Irish to be mocked awfully on TV by the likes of Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning.
I’m old enough to remember those days and look back in disgust.......

Thankfully we are definitely a long way away from those very bad days. No argument here. I do, however, think that the evidence points to an existing form of structural racism which will perhaps actually be much harder to shift than the overt racism you refer to in your post.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Interesting, I'll put some personal perspective on it. I grew up in Brixton and lived there until I was 30. At school my two best mates were Deo, born in Guyana and Owen, born in Jamaica. When I was 11 my primary school class had 50% black pupils, almost unheard of in those days (1965). We all got on together as kids always do. I saw first hand racism directed at my mates and it was direct in your face stuff and it made me sick to hear it. I saw my father who was from Cyprus also racially abused by certain locals, spick, dago and wop being regular name calling.

In our street there were Irish, Italian, Greek, Hungarian, Yugoslav and various West Indian families and it was a great place to live despite the small minority of bigots. We would be in and out of each others houses, often we'd sample the different foods of these people and learn about their countries, customs and origins, it was part of an education no school could give you and something I'm fortunate to have experienced. But what school did give myself and my mates was opportunity, an opportunity to take something that would give us a chance in life. I know Deo and Owen both went on to be successful in their lives because they took that opportunity, sadly, too many didn't and I know of some of my old schoolmates that have had very troubled lives.

I worked for GLC/ILEA and much of my work was with schools and knowing what went on at some in the 80s and 90s showed that many of the BAME children, boys in particular often went off the rails in their teenage years, one black teacher I knew said their problem was often peer pressure from older tearaways that these boys looked up to. I could empathise with that as a number of black mates I had at school went their own way once they reached about 15, influenced by those a year or two older that had left school with no qualifications and little prospects. Education is the key to helping young kids of all backgrounds but they have to play their part as well, too many are lured by the 'Gangsta' profile. Social media is creating a monster that will be difficult to dismember but schools have to play a bigger role in the well known problem areas or we'll be revisiting this again and again in years to come...

"Social media is creating a monster that will be difficult to dismember..."

Never a truer word spoken. Hopefully this is that very rare statement ... something everyone on this board can agree on?

 

[Staines R's]

Thankfully we are definitely a long way away from those very bad days. No argument here. I do, however, think that the evidence points to an existing form of structural racism which will perhaps actually be much harder to shift than the overt racism you refer to in your post.

But it is being shifted.......again I can only speak from personal experience, but people like my lad are now the sort that are joining the OB......not the bullies and racists that we used to know. That’s one of the ways that change is taking place.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Time will tell as to whether it was worth it. I'm sure Floyd would have much preferred to be punched than killed. I have witnessed police brutality first hand. Theres always the chancers along for the ride, as in any and every protest. This isn't going away anytime soon

Me Too.

 

[ELLERS]

Honestly not having a go Wills, but are you sure you aren’t West London Willy ? I seem to remember having the self same discussion with him ages back......all about Protest, Trump and Tibet ?

Staines dont say that FFS! You remember what happened when i said it?

 

[ELLERS]

Please show where you have explained either of those points? I go on many protests, mentor for and have other involvement for groups relating to human rights issues, you are aware that if you are against racism you can be against or pro other issues as well, you are allowed to support more than one cause, it is allowed.

The reason I don't mention the group I went on a recent protest with is because it's a very localised group, the basics behind it are they are a human rights group, like many I associate with.

I think that addresses all the points you have made.

So you go on various demos?
I think its sad that these groups ( not saying you) infiltrate and cause trouble which ruins the message. I remember reading a fab book on The life Dr King where he condemned violence. I wonder what he would have thought of the actions here?

 

[Willhoops]

So you go on various demos?
I think its sad that these groups ( not saying you) infiltrate the cause trouble which ruins the message. I remember reading a fab book on The life Dr King where he condemned violence. I wonder what he would have thought of the actions here?

Yes I go on various demos.


I would think MLK would be more appalled that 50 years after his work that racism is still at the levels it is today and be wanting answers as to why this is the case and why things aren't different, before he would even consider answering anything else. Are bells starting to ring yet?

Can you please demonstrate where you have clarified

*I asked
Who am I lumping in the same basket? It's from comments on this page, you accused me of lumping people into the same basket, you have not clarified in the slightest who.

*I asked
So you are either saying that you support the slave trader or people should have left the statues of other figures including Hitler and Sadam Hussain where they stand and those responsible for pulling them down should have been arrested. By your logic it must be one of the two.

Again this comes from this page, certain context might go back a page, but it's all there. Why don't you answer?

You have claimed you have answered, can you please show me where or admit that was a lie.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Interesting, I'll put some personal perspective on it. I grew up in Brixton and lived there until I was 30. At school my two best mates were Deo, born in Guyana and Owen, born in Jamaica. When I was 11 my primary school class had 50% black pupils, almost unheard of in those days (1965). We all got on together as kids always do. I saw first hand racism directed at my mates and it was direct in your face stuff and it made me sick to hear it. I saw my father who was from Cyprus also racially abused by certain locals, spick, dago and wop being regular name calling.

In our street there were Irish, Italian, Greek, Hungarian, Yugoslav and various West Indian families and it was a great place to live despite the small minority of bigots. We would be in and out of each others houses, often we'd sample the different foods of these people and learn about their countries, customs and origins, it was part of an education no school could give you and something I'm fortunate to have experienced. But what school did give myself and my mates was opportunity, an opportunity to take something that would give us a chance in life. I know Deo and Owen both went on to be successful in their lives because they took that opportunity, sadly, too many didn't and I know of some of my old schoolmates that have had very troubled lives.

I worked for GLC/ILEA and much of my work was with schools and knowing what went on at some in the 80s and 90s showed that many of the BAME children, boys in particular often went off the rails in their teenage years, one black teacher I knew said their problem was often peer pressure from older tearaways that these boys looked up to. I could empathise with that as a number of black mates I had at school went their own way once they reached about 15, influenced by those a year or two older that had left school with no qualifications and little prospects. Education is the key to helping young kids of all backgrounds but they have to play their part as well, too many are lured by the 'Gangsta' profile. Social media is creating a monster that will be difficult to dismember but schools have to play a bigger role in the well known problem areas or we'll be revisiting this again and again in years to come...

Superb post, Sooper

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Honestly not having a go Wills, but are you sure you aren’t West London Willy ? I seem to remember having the self same discussion with him ages back......all about Protest, Trump and Tibet ?

It may well be defamatory to accuse anyone of being West London Willy!

Willhoops may be a bit woke (!) but in an intelligent and reasonable way

 

[ELLERS]

I

Yes I go on various demos.


I would think MLK would be more appalled that 50 years after his work that racism is still at the levels it is today and be wanting answers as to why this is the case and why things aren't different, before he would even consider answering anything else. Are bells starting to ring yet?

Can you please demonstrate where you have clarified

*I asked
Who am I lumping in the same basket? It's from comments on this page, you accused me of lumping people into the same basket, you have not clarified in the slightest who.

*I asked
So you are either saying that you support the slave trader or people should have left the statues of other figures including Hitler and Sadam Hussain where they stand and those responsible for pulling them down should have been arrested. By your logic it must be one of the two.

Again this comes from this page, certain context might go back a page, but it's all there. Why don't you answer?

You have claimed you have answered, can you please show me where or admit that was a lie.

think Dr King would understand that things like racism arent sorted in a day. I also think that he would think his fight has come a long way. You dont think the US is different from the 60?
As for you silly comments regarding a slave trader? I just said it was stupid to pull down a statue, which is was. I noticed that the usual anarchists were the ones that did it as well. Funny i also saw a stop Brexit sign on the news. As i said the Tarquins latest outing... what will it be next month?

 

[ELLERS]

It may well be defamatory to accuse anyone of being West London Willy!

Willhoops may be a bit woke (!) but in an intelligent and reasonable way

I agree although i dont agree with Wills he articulates his points quite well.

 

[Willhoops]

I

think Dr King would understand that things like racism arent sorted in a day. I also think that he would think his fight has come a long way. You dont think the US is different from the 60?
As for you silly comments regarding a slave trader? I just said it was stupid to pull down a statue, which is was. I noticed that the usual anarchists were the ones that did it as well. Funny i also saw a stop Brexit sign on the news. As i said the Tarquins latest outing... what will it be next month?

I'm fully aware things like racism aren't solved in a day, and whilst there has been significant progress it's 50 years there is no way there is enough considering the amount the world has changed, and whilst it's only my opinion, it is my opinion in the last 10-15 years we have gone backwards, like I've said before it might not be to do with the number of racists/bigots but the platform being more available to voice their opinions and they certainly feel more empowered to do so.

The point with regards to the statue in Bristol was quite poignant, there have been numerous requests for this to be taken down, and I see no reason to why it was still up, those requests were ignored flat out. Which is part of what the current protest is about, not having voices heard. Certain statues and monuments have no place in modern society, this was one of them, bit like if Sadam's was still up.

Who were the usual anarchists? Did you recognise them from other protests? Really? Next the Brexit sign... yeah a bit out of place really in my opinion and of no real benefit, whilst there is undoubtedly a correlation between Brexit voters and bigots (some not all) it really does nothing in the greater scheme of it, it will only go to alienate the Brexit voters who aren't racist. Your Tarquin comment? Juvenile, it's just a pathetic attempt to discredit people are showing they actually care, I'd much prefer there were people willing to engage in issues they feel passionately about than sit at home and do **** all for society in their entire life.

So what are we missing here... oh yeah you claimed I was putting people in the same basket, you are still to clarify who, and if you have clarified you have not shown this, if you are unable to demonstrate where I would appreciate an apology for telling porkies and an explanation.

Thanks in advance

 

[Willhoops]

It may well be defamatory to accuse anyone of being West London Willy!

Willhoops may be a bit woke (!) but in an intelligent and reasonable way

I'll take that Goldie, not that I really know much of West London Willy, I do remember seeing his name on posts, but don't remember the content.

The weird thing is people throw woke around as an insult, I see it as aware of current issues and progressive/humanist ways of thinking, so for me a big compliment

 

[Willhoops]

I agree although i dont agree with Wills he articulates his points quite well.

I'll take this as well and will thank you for this comment

 

[Staines R's]

I'm fully aware things like racism aren't solved in a day, and whilst there has been significant progress it's 50 years there is no way there is enough considering the amount the world has changed, and whilst it's only my opinion, it is my opinion in the last 10-15 years we have gone backwards, like I've said before it might not be to do with the number of racists/bigots but the platform being more available to voice their opinions and they certainly feel more empowered to do so.

The point with regards to the statue in Bristol was quite poignant, there have been numerous requests for this to be taken down, and I see no reason to why it was still up, those requests were ignored flat out. Which is part of what the current protest is about, not having voices heard. Certain statues and monuments have no place in modern society, this was one of them, bit like if Sadam's was still up.

Who were the usual anarchists? Did you recognise them from other protests? Really? Next the Brexit sign... yeah a bit out of place really in my opinion and of no real benefit, whilst there is undoubtedly a correlation between Brexit voters and bigots (some not all) it really does nothing in the greater scheme of it, it will only go to alienate the Brexit voters who aren't racist. Your Tarquin comment? Juvenile, it's just a pathetic attempt to discredit people are showing they actually care, I'd much prefer there were people willing to engage in issues they feel passionately about than sit at home and do **** all for society in their entire life.

So what are we missing here... oh yeah you claimed I was putting people in the same basket, you are still to clarify who, and if you have clarified you have not shown this, if you are unable to demonstrate where I would appreciate an apology for telling porkies and an explanation.

Thanks in advance

To be fair Wills, the interview they did on sky yesterday with a white fella wearing wearing a BLM T-shirt, speaking with a posh accent was called ‘Hugo’.......I did chuckle to myself

 

[Willhoops]

To be fair Wills, the interview they did on sky yesterday with a white fella wearing wearing a BLM T-shirt, speaking with a posh accent was called ‘Hugo’.......I did chuckle to myself

I get what your saying, but in the weird and wonderful world of the activist you see people from all walks of life from your Hugo's to your Swampys, it's not often you get such a diverse collection of people, it's a truly beautiful thing.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I'll take that Goldie, not that I really know much of West London Willy, I do remember seeing his name on posts, but don't remember the content.

The weird thing is people throw woke around as an insult, I see it as aware of current issues and progressive/humanist ways of thinking, so for me a big compliment

It wasn't meant as an insult! I quite agree that those who are woke are proud to be called that.

 

[Willhoops]

It wasn't meant as an insult! I quite agree that those who are woke are proud to be called that.

Thanks Goldie, again appreciated

 

[Staines R's]

I get what your saying, but in the weird and wonderful world of the activist you see people from all walks of life from your Hugo's to your Swampys, it's not often you get such a diverse collection of people, it's a truly beautiful thing.

Problem is though Wills it’s always these ****s who are egging others on to violence when they haven’t got the bollox to do anything themselves.
The self same guys who will talk their face off, bemoaning the destruction of the rainforest while sticking 3 grams of Charlie up their nose every weekend.
I dislike them and their need for a cause.....