Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

Exactly this.

https://news.sky.com/story/significant-spike-in-islamophobia-after-johnson-comments-11800373

mmmmmmmm defending the indefensible.

Ask Muslim women if they feel being called letterboxes from a man of such high standing is acceptable. I'm sure you will get a very different response. In fact, I have seen many muslim women interviewed who have said attacks on their community have increased as a direct result of what he said. Politicians should not speak in this language of any community unless they want to be part of the NF, EDL, and the likes.

I see Islamophobia as racism. Boris's article was not racist.

Was it irresponsible in the way it was phrased? Possibly, but a hell of a lot of people agree with him about the face mask. In liberal France, it's banned! Is that racist?

 

[finglasqpr]

I see Islamophobia as racism. Boris's article was not racist.

Was it irresponsible in the way it was phrased? Possibly, but a hell of a lot of people agree with him about the face mask. In liberal France, it's banned! Is that racist?

Still defending his outrageous comments. Wow.

Islam is a religion, not a race Goldy. Sounds like you agree with him yet you call foul whenever anybody is remotely anti-semitic. Double standards Goldy.

 

[Willhoops]

I see Islamophobia as racism. Boris's article was not racist.

Was it irresponsible in the way it was phrased? Possibly, but a hell of a lot of people agree with him about the face mask. In liberal France, it's banned! Is that racist?

I agree with him about the veil, headscarf the lot. This was demonstrated ever so well by a woman at our work, not sure why it came up but she was ranting on to someone about wearing the headscarf because that's what she wanted to do, I then said 'yeah that's great, however how would it be accepted within your family and community if you decided you didn't want to wear it?' ... she went silent

There was two major differences to me, firstly I asked a question diplomatically, the question was said in a way in which it couldn't be seen as antagonistic or childish like 'letterboxes'. Most importantly though I'm not a public figure broadcasting to a potential audience of millions, some of who would have felt empowered to react against, whilst others would have found it to be an attack on something they held dear, Johnson was not entering into a two way conversation.

I'd agree 100% there needs to be changes in certain religious traditions and practices that promote oppression, however I do understand any changes need to be made with baby steps over time, big demands will only be met with a feeling of victimisation and a backlash will definitely follow

 

[QPR Oslo]

You're wrong there. Boris has kicked out virtually all of the Tory Remainers, and made his MP's sign up to his agreement

Virtually! I'm sure a few will have slipped through. I'd love to see Dominic Grieve back in Parliament.

 

[bobmid]

Agree about him being verbally gaff prone in the past, but much of it has had very little significance, apart from the Iranian example. Balance that against the fact that the world and his wife said he'd never get the backstop removed from the Withdrawal Agreement, and he did just that.

As I say, his record as Mayor of London was generally good. The question is, whether the public see a foot-in-mouth merchant like Boris as incompetent. I don't think they do - but he can't afford to have another Iranian-type issue

Or taking his verbal gaffs (many of them, homophobic, sexist, racist) and balance that to something Jeremy corbyn has never said. Which is worse?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Still defending his outrageous comments. Wow.

Islam is a religion, not a race Goldy. Sounds like you agree with him yet you call foul whenever anybody is remotely anti-semitic. Double standards Goldy.

If a politician says niqabs are ridiculous because they cover the face, is that racist? No.

If a politician says Jewish skull caps are ridiculous because they harm hair growth? No

See, Fing, they are just talking about an article of clothing that would apply to whoever wore it.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Or taking his verbal gaffs (many of them, homophobic, sexist, racist) and balance that to something Jeremy corbyn has never said. Which is worse?

Look at the exodus of Jewish MP's and members and most probably voters from Corbyn's Labour, and ask yourself that

 

[kiwiqpr]

Ok where to start

There was that woman in Iran who was being detained, and Boris incorrectly said she was she was training journalists in the area, he was foreign secretary at the time!

Suggested money going towards historic child abuse cases was being 'spaffed up the wall'

Insulted the whole nation of Papa New Guinea with cannibalism comment

Johnson said of Obama that he was part Kenyan and had a historic dislike of the UK

Last night straight out lied about the amount of hospitals

Claimed drunk Liverpool supporters were partly to blame for Hillsborough

He was sacked for making up a quote posted on the front page on the Times

Sacked again for lying about an affair

Threatened to attack a journalist for investigating one of his Eaton buddies

Well we know about all the straight out bigoted and ignorant comments he has made while in a job as a public figure. If most of us said those whilst representing our companies, the sack would follow.

Lied about 350 mill a week to the NHS

Said that Turkey was joining the EU, then lied about that

He broke rules in relation to financial interests 3 times in a year

Waxed 43 mill on the bridge across the Thames .... that never happened because it was a totally **** idea

Waxed 300+mill on illegal water cannons

Called homosexuals tank-topped bum boys, again whilst being a public figure

Said a Libyan city had a bright future after they cleared away the dead bodies, not exactly statesmen like

Dodged questions about cocaine use.. wonder why

I could go on the list in enormous, sometimes he was sacked, the rest he should have been

Yeah yeah yeah
But apart from those
What wrongs has Boris ever done

 

[Willhoops]

If a politician says niqabs are ridiculous because they cover the face, is that racist? No.

If a politician says Jewish skull caps are ridiculous because they harm hair growth? No

See, Fing, they are just talking about an article of clothing that would apply to whoever wore it.

Can you imagine the backlash if Corbyn had made that comment about skull caps? Sometimes things are not best aired, certainly when he used what he must have known would be seen as a derogatory and childish term. As I mentioned previously he is a politician, represents the conservative party and now represents the entire nation, at any point during his career he must see these are things, as a diplomat especially, were flat out wrong

 

[Willhoops]

Yeah yeah yeah
But apart from those
What wrongs has Boris ever done

Don't tempt me, I could easily do a much longer list

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I agree with him about the veil, headscarf the lot. This was demonstrated ever so well by a woman at our work, not sure why it came up but she was ranting on to someone about wearing the headscarf because that's what she wanted to do, I then said 'yeah that's great, however how would it be accepted within your family and community if you decided you didn't want to wear it?' ... she went silent

There was two major differences to me, firstly I asked a question diplomatically, the question was said in a way in which it couldn't be seen as antagonistic or childish like 'letterboxes'. Most importantly though I'm not a public figure broadcasting to a potential audience of millions, some of who would have felt empowered to react against, whilst others would have found it to be an attack on something they held dear, Johnson was not entering into a two way conversation.

I'd agree 100% there needs to be changes in certain religious traditions and practices that promote oppression, however I do understand any changes need to be made with baby steps over time, big demands will only be met with a feeling of victimisation and a backlash will definitely follow

I'm broadly in agreement there, Will. Personally, I don't have a problem with the headscarf on a consenting adults head but I have an instinctive distrust of anyone that I have to deal with who covers their face.

Did Boris go over the top? - yes. Has it set the conversation going? - yes. Has it caused problems for some female in the Muslim community? - yes, probably, which is why Boris could have been more sensitive about the words he used - but I agree with his sentiment. As do a lot more.

 

[finglasqpr]

If a politician says niqabs are ridiculous because they cover the face, is that racist? No.

If a politician says Jewish skull caps are ridiculous because they harm hair growth? No

See, Fing, they are just talking about an article of clothing that would apply to whoever wore it.

Now you are just being ridiculous Goldy.

How many times have I said that to be anti-islam is not racist. Don't confuse the two issues Goldy. You are more intelligent than that.

"They" just talking about an article of clothing - this is the Prime Minister of your country. He should be more responsible than that. His remarks resulted in a spike of 375% in attacks on muslim women in the week immediately after his comments compared to the week previously. He is not a bloke down the pub expressing an opinion to a buddy. What he has to say affects people directly and the least he should do is retract the comments and apologise.

Thanks for mentioning the skull caps but your comparison is not relevant. I don't see anybody politician or otherwise criticising anybody for wearing a skull cap.

Some people are offended by men wearing skirts. Why don't we criticise Scotsmen for wearing kilts?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Can you imagine the backlash if Corbyn had made that comment about skull caps? Sometimes things are not best aired, certainly when he used what he must have known would be seen as a derogatory and childish term. As I mentioned previously he is a politician, represents the conservative party and now represents the entire nation, at any point during his career he must see these are things, as a diplomat especially, were flat out wrong

I think Boris was right to speak out about the niqab. As I say, France has gone a lot further and banned it. Such medieval garb has no place in our society imo

If Corbyn didn't have the reputation he did on anti-semitism, of course he could have raised an issue of the skullcap, if there was good reason.

 

[Willhoops]

I'm broadly in agreement there, Will. Personally, I don't have a problem with the headscarf on a consenting adults head but I have an instinctive distrust of anyone that I have to deal with who covers their face.

Did Boris go over the top? - yes. Has it set the conversation going? - yes. Has it caused problems for some female in the Muslim community? - yes, probably, which is why Boris could have been more sensitive about the words he used - but I agree with his sentiment. As do a lot more.

Not just the women, the entire Muslim community. The platform he used and the way it was raised was always going to cause more harm than it would do good, he must have known that. If anything the conversation was drawn back due to people not wanting to be associated with Johnson's childish and demeaning comments. Rather than writing it in the media, the discussion is better had with people in the community, listening to their views, if I a simple plebeian can see that, someone in Johnson's positions throughout the years surely can.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Now you are just being ridiculous Goldy.

How many times have I said that to be anti-islam is not racist. Don't confuse the two issues Goldy. You are more intelligent than that.

"They" just talking about an article of clothing - this is the Prime Minister of your country. He should be more responsible than that. His remarks resulted in a spike of 375% in attacks on muslim women in the week immediately after his comments compared to the week previously. He is not a bloke down the pub expressing an opinion to a buddy. What he has to say affects people directly and the least he should do is retract the comments and apologise.

Thanks for mentioning the skull caps but your comparison is not relevant. I don't see anybody politician or otherwise criticising anybody for wearing a skull cap.

Some people are offended by men wearing skirts. Why don't we criticise Scotsmen for wearing kilts?

The point I am making, whether you call it Islamaphobic or racist, is that it is perfectly acceptable to comment on a piece of clothing if there is good reason to do so.

Boris had good reason to comment on the face masks imo.

Yes, he did it clumsily, and that is where he might be criticised, but not for raising the issue. And for me, clumsy language is not Islamophobic

 

[Willhoops]

I think Boris was right to speak out about the niqab. As I say, France has gone a lot further and banned it. Such medieval garb has no place in our society imo

If Corbyn didn't have the reputation he did on anti-semitism, of course he could have raised an issue of the skullcap, if there was good reason.

The reputation Corbyn has is pretty much constructed by the media though you must admit. Has there been problems in the Labour party, yes, has he dealt with it effectively, no, I'd agree, the same could be said about the conservatives with Islamaphobia... but only one gets the press.

For me one of Corbyn's biggest faults is not sticking up for himself enough, especially with all the crap about him being a terrorist supporter/sympathiser. That is widely accepted and repeated by large numbers, yet the truth is totally different, and if it wasn't for Corbyn dealing with some proper horrible ****s many more would almost certainly have died.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Not just the women, the entire Muslim community. The platform he used and the way it was raised was always going to cause more harm than it would do good, he must have known that. If anything the conversation was drawn back due to people not wanting to be associated with Johnson's childish and demeaning comments. Rather than writing it in the media, the discussion is better had with people in the community, listening to their views, if I a simple plebeian can see that, someone in Johnson's positions throughout the years surely can.

I don't hear you criticising France, an EU country, for banning it. Is what Boris did worse or better?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The reputation Corbyn has is pretty much constructed by the media though you must admit. Has there been problems in the Labour party, yes, has he dealt with it effectively, no, I'd agree, the same could be said about the conservatives with Islamaphobia... but only one gets the press.

For me one of Corbyn's biggest faults is not sticking up for himself enough, especially with all the crap about him being a terrorist supporter/sympathiser. That is widely accepted and repeated by large numbers, yet the truth is totally different, and if it wasn't for Corbyn dealing with some proper horrible ****s many more would almost certainly have died.

If Corbyn's reputation is constructed by the media, why the Jewish exodus from his party? You're misleading yourself, Will. It's a lot more serious than that

 

[finglasqpr]

The point I am making, whether you call it Islamaphobic or racist, is that it is perfectly acceptable to comment on a piece of clothing if there is good reason to do so.

Boris had good reason to comment on the face masks imo.

Yes, he did it clumsily, and that is where he might be criticised, but not for raising the issue. And for me, clumsy language is not Islamophobic

You seem to have a problem with muslims Goldy.

Criticising them, their culture or their clothing seems to be ok with you but criticising Jewish people seems to be unacceptable. Remember what I said a few weeks ago about people on here having a subtle anti-islam agenda? Bingo. You have just proved it, thanks a lot.

 

[Willhoops]

I don't hear you criticising France, an EU country, for banning it. Is what Boris did worse or better?

In my opinion the actions the French took was unwise and a little shocked that more problems haven't arisen than they have, well that I've heard about. I've only been in France briefly over the last few years and not in a position to give a better informed opinion. Maybe it would work over here? However I think the best way of moving this forward is discussions with the communities rather than childish media comments. I'd probably say Johnson's comments were potentially less damaging than the actions the French took though