Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
ELLERS said:
The EU is worried that a Hardliner will take over. TBH Goldie It may not be a bad idea as TM is weak. I see a vote of no confidence in her leadership happening soon.

I also notice how people have not mentioned how the EU bowed to Trumps demands on Nato. If you stick up to these bullies they will cave in.
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Exactly right.
 
Stroller said:
Come on Goldie, it was the fear of UKIP and Farage that caused Cameron to call the bleeding referendum. Given that distrust of mainstream politicians is now accepted to be one of the main reasons that Leave won out, Farage was probably the most influential individual in the campaign, and he was pointing at Norway and Switzerland as a satisfactory potential outcomes.
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He was also pointing at posters of long lines of Immigrants, warning that they were coming our way. Don't forget his racist tactics that no doubt swayed a great many.
 
Stroller said:
Come on Goldie, it was the fear of UKIP and Farage that caused Cameron to call the bleeding referendum. Given that distrust of mainstream politicians is now accepted to be one of the main reasons that Leave won out, Farage was probably the most influential individual in the campaign, and he was pointing at Norway and Switzerland as a satisfactory potential outcomes.
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UKIP were a protest group, Strolls, (and since the referendum result have been deflated like a balloon). Farage was influential in getting the referendum, but where you have all the main Remain and Leave leaders saying that leaving means out of the CU and SM, that is far more influential. Farage was always the negative force. Only UKIP headbangers looked to him for future positive governmental policy
 
West London Willy said:
Ellers / Goldie - do I need to point to the rules where it says 'no personal attacks allowed'? You're going after me, whilst I'm talking about your position on matters.

Please stop with the personal attacks.
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No one has personally attacked you Willy. With regards to me, I posted yesterday out of frustration re Brexit. It was not aimed at you or anyone other than the government. You then responded by attacking me and the post (which by the way I didn't mind). You disagreed with it which I am glad you did as there are always 2 sides to the argument. I then mentioned Trump (whom you clearly dislike), you then said you wouldn't debate with me.
How is that a personal attack? Seriously you need work out what a personal attack is? Some of the banned posters used personal attacks. I see none here.
 
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Stroller said:
Come on Goldie, it was the fear of UKIP and Farage that caused Cameron to call the bleeding referendum. Given that distrust of mainstream politicians is now accepted to be one of the main reasons that Leave won out, Farage was probably the most influential individual in the campaign, and he was pointing at Norway and Switzerland as a satisfactory potential outcomes.
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Farage was a big player but Cameron called for the vote. Agree Ukip was a factor but Cameron was getting a lot of stick from the Tory backbenchers and Labour Eurosceptics. 2 Tories defected to UKIP and after the local/European elections. (Also he got nothing from Brussels (surprise). Cameron was then advised to call the referendum. That was how this came about.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
I'd quote to Arrogant O'Brien the following extract from Boris Johnson's resignation letter, Woody. EU responses for the need of (in this case, life saving) laws move slower than an oil tanker, and if it doesn't suit the lobbying multinational companies, it probably won't ever get through:-

"It now seems that the opening bid of our negotiations involves accepting that we are not actually going to be able to make our own laws. Indeed we seem to have gone backwards since the last Chequers meeting in February, when I described my frustrations, as Mayor of London, in trying to protect cyclists from juggernauts. We had wanted to lower the cabin windows to improve visibility; and even though such designs were already on the market, and even though there had been a horrific spate of deaths, mainly of female cyclists, we were told that we had to wait for the EU to legislate on the matter.

So at the previous Chequers session we thrashed out an elaborate procedure for divergence from EU rules. But even that now seems to have been taken off the table, and there is in fact no easy UK right of initiative. Yet if Brexit is to mean anything, it must surely give ministers and Parliament the chance to do things differently to protect the public. If a country cannot pass a law to save the lives of female cyclists - when that proposal is supported at every level of UK government - then I don't see how that country can truly be called independent."
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A brilliant and telling example, Goldie - of Johnson lying.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...u-safety-regulation-in-his-resignation-letter
 
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Stroller said:
A brilliant and telling example, Goldie - of Johnson lying.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...u-safety-regulation-in-his-resignation-letter
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I have to say that I'm instinctively sceptical of an article that accuses Johnson of lying - it's headline - in other words, has deliberately told untruths. And then goes on to admit that it may be he has misremembered certain facts, which is not lying. It makes me think Channel 4 News has a bias, which of course it has. Jon Snow is further to the left than Corbyn

I can't comment on the facts. Hopefully, Boris will respond since he's been accused of lying. I do note that the article does not dispute (last paragraph) that there was a delay of a year in getting the safety regulations in place caused by EU membership. And presumably, given the rate of cycling accidents, avoidable deaths may have resulted in that time.

I'm not particularly critical of laws coming out of the EU (though I am wary of MNC's lobbying, which can be a form of bribery). The biggest issue for me is control of borders. That's not something O'Brien is bothered about because he's so pro-immigration that he is essentially a No-Borders champion. For me, such matters should be a matter for the UK Parliament to control the rate of immigration. I think this was a major factor in the Brexit vote.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
I have to say that I'm instinctively sceptical of an article that accuses Johnson of lying - it's headline - in other words, has deliberately told untruths. And then goes on to admit that it may be he has misremembered certain facts, which is not lying. It makes me think Channel 4 News has a bias, which of course it has. Jon Snow is further to the left than Corbyn

I can't comment on the facts. Hopefully, Boris will respond since he's been accused of lying. I do note that the article does not dispute (last paragraph) that there was a delay of a year in getting the safety regulations in place caused by EU membership. And presumably, given the rate of cycling accidents, avoidable deaths may have resulted in that time.

I'm not particularly critical of laws coming out of the EU (though I am wary of MNC's lobbying, which can be a form of bribery). The biggest issue for me is control of borders. That's not something O'Brien is bothered about because he's so pro-immigration that he is essentially a No-Borders champion. For me, such matters should be a matter for the UK Parliament to control the rate of immigration. I think this was a major factor in the Brexit vote.
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He seems to 'misremember' quite a lot.
 
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Stroller said:
He seems to 'misremember' quite a lot.
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He's never been a devil for detail, I agree. It's a weakness, but I cannot believe he's misrepresented the position on cyclists in his resignation letter which he would have known would be scrutinised by the whole of the media. We need the next installment
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Does it occur to you, Uber, that the football coach that decided to take the kids 2 1/2 miles into a dangerous tunnel so they could carve their names, may have a lot to answer for, including the life of the diver that was killed. The BBC interviewed the other football coaches celebrating last night, but surely one of their number f*cked up big time
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Yes, it was damn foolhardy, but I rejoice in their rescue all the same. I agree the coach has questions to answer. These things do occur to me on an occasional basis.
 
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Uber_Hoop said:
Yes, it was damn foolhardy, but I rejoice in their rescue all the same. I agree the coach has questions to answer. These things do occur to be on an occasional basis.
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Agreed. This from CNN:

"Ekkapol Ake Chantawong, the 25-year-old coach of the Wild Boars soccer team, has been criticized by some for what is perceived to be an act of supreme recklessness.
Why did he, the adult tasked with taking care of 12 young children, decide to lead the group into a dangerous, forbidden network of underground tunnels, known to flood at this time of year?"
 
Ekapol Chanthawong (the coach) lost his whole family as a child. He trained as a monk and then devoted his life to helping kids. According to rescue officials, he is among the weakest in the group because he gave the boys his share of the limited food and water they had with them before they were found.

He also taught the boys how to meditate and how to conserve as much energy as possible until they were found. He kept 12 children alive in a cave without food or light for 9 days.

The signage in the cave states that the rainy season is July to September. They entered the caves in June - then the rains started, very early and very heavily. It was one of those things, and he did a fantastic job keeping the boys alive and positive until they were found.

Chanthawong was also the last to be rescued, making sure all 12 boys got out safely before he came out.
 
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West London Willy said:
Ekapol Chanthawong (the coach) lost his whole family as a child. He trained as a monk and then devoted his life to helping kids. According to rescue officials, he is among the weakest in the group because he gave the boys his share of the limited food and water they had with them before they were found.

He also taught the boys how to meditate and how to conserve as much energy as possible until they were found. He kept 12 children alive in a cave without food or light for 9 days.

The signage in the cave states that the rainy season is July to September. They entered the caves in June - then the rains started, very early and very heavily. It was one of those things, and he did a fantastic job keeping the boys alive and positive until they were found.

Chanthawong was also the last to be rescued, making sure all 12 boys got out safely before he came out.
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All very right and proper that he did under the circumstances.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Agreed. This from CNN:

"Ekkapol Ake Chantawong, the 25-year-old coach of the Wild Boars soccer team, has been criticized by some for what is perceived to be an act of supreme recklessness.
Why did he, the adult tasked with taking care of 12 young children, decide to lead the group into a dangerous, forbidden network of underground tunnels, known to flood at this time of year?"
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If you are going to criticize on this basis, then it is logical to also blame the parents for allowing their kids to go on this trip. I have no idea about the regulations in Thailand but in most countries it would also be obligatory to inform some authorities with a route plan before going, as for a mountaineering expedition - at any rate somebody on the outside must have been informed and given permission. So if fault is to be given then it must be shared over a larger group of people. Best to just celebrate the fact that they are still alive, and also to commend the trainer for helping to get the kids through this in the way he did.
 
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colognehornet said:
If you are going to criticize on this basis, then it is logical to also blame the parents for allowing their kids to go on this trip. I have no idea about the regulations in Thailand but in most countries it would also be obligatory to inform some authorities with a route plan before going, as for a mountaineering expedition - at any rate somebody on the outside must have been informed and given permission. So if fault is to be given then it must be shared over a larger group of people. Best to just celebrate the fact that they are still alive, and also to commend the trainer for helping to get the kids through this in the way he did.
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Certainly - celebrate the fact that they are all alive. That's a given.

I don't know the facts about the parents. I don't know whether the trainer exceeded the parents' authority. He owed a duty of care to the kids. I don't know whether he behaved reasonably - but questions must be asked.
 
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