Off Topic The Politics Thread
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I'm selling all my tickets to Dianne Abbott for fifty-zuptillion donutcoin.
Lewisham East turnout: 33.4% (~22,700 votes cast)
66.6% no turn out
is it the devils constituency
66.6% no turn out
is it the devils constituency
I don't admire thick idiot representatives. Rule 1 in negotiating is that you have to be prepared to walk away from a proposed deal if it's bad one. The Brexit-denying Tory rebels (mostly sacked ex-ministers with a bitter attitude) want to signal to their Brussels masters that the UK will take anything that's offered. And since even Europhiles like Hilary Benn are now admitting Brussels wants to issue a punishment beating to deter other members from leaving (see his comments on the latest security Galileo exclusion), Brussels will offer the worst deal it can get away with, while being aware that a "no deal" would damage it badly in the eyes of member firms, as well as damaging the economies of the member firms themselves.
The rebels are led by Dominic Grieve who is a good, academic lawyer with no commercial sense whatsoever.
He's neither 'thick' nor is he an 'idiot'. Just because his stance isn't the same as yours doesn't make it less valid or thought out.
And I'm utterly sick of people thinking that this is a simple negotiation, like you're looking to buy a house or a car. It's not, and never has been. The only way 'walking away' is in any way valid, would be deciding to walk away from the moronic, fiscally damaging decision to leave at all.
Indeed. “No deal is better than a bad deal” makes no sense when “no deal” is in fact a complete change from what you have now and the financially worst possible outcome.
If you strip the whole thing down, the principals of negotiation are exactly like buying a car etc, and Brussels are behaving like second hand car dealers that think they've found a customer that must have one of their motors of the forecourt at whatever the cost.
It's simply stupid to send a signal to the EU commission that we are desperate to take a deal, however poor that deal may be. Brussels has been aggressive, sarcastic, underhand and overbearing in dealings so far. The only thing that would prick their balloon is if they thought we might walk away - that would create huge ructions among their members and take the self-satisfied smile off Barnier's face.
Not THIS negotiation, where the impact of not having a deal is far worse than doing what you consider a 'bad' deal. If you don't think you're getting a good deal buying a car, you walk away just as you are today. If we walk away with no deal, we're screwed. If you can't see that, then please don't quote any negotiation tactics at me again, please, because it's pretty clear you don't know the first thing about it.
But we do have to take a motor and those buying our future car have shown themselves to be incompetent at doing so. I’m not sure what “no deal” is in this analogy. Maybe the car with a steering wheel made out of razor blades.
I litigated High Court civil actions. What's your history of negotiating?
Does that make him wrong? It’s a quite obvious point that this isn’t a ‘typical’ negotiation as there is no genuine option to walk away unless you scrap Brexit altogether.
Nobody wants a "no deal", but when you have one side trying to punish the other, you have to genuinely prepare for it or what you'll get will be incredibly bad. We're the sixth biggest economy in the world, the EU sells more to us than we sell to them, they desperately need our £37bn and the Euro is heavily dependent on the most important financial centre in the world...which is London
I know about negotiating when stakes are high. That's the point I'm making, when he becomes personal and tells me I don't know the first thing about it.
I'm still waiting to see his impressive CV in negotiating deals
All true, so I don’t see why a softer EEA-type Brexit isn’t what we are looking for as the least painful exit. Why are we as a nation so obsessed with immigration that it’s worth the risk?
It's not the immigrants per se, it's the numbers. Our population has increased exponentially over the last 20 years or so, and it's beginning to affect people's quality of life. Both the Tories and Labour are right that a UK government has to be able to control immigration. We invite in whom we want.
No, it doesn't make me wrong at all on this. What it shows is that Goldie doesn't want to back down and admit that this isn't a 'normal' negotiation. I don't need to say I litigated high court actions in order to know that this is not the same as buying a car or a house, where you can simply walk away with no downside. Were I ever to be involved in a civil lawsuit, I think I'd want an attorney that was aware of things like that.