Off Topic The Politics Thread
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No free movement of people, though. Controlling immigration was what everyone was concerned about wasn't it?
Initially yes but I think its greater than that now. The leavers just want to leave the EU completely and believe the UK can do better outside the EU than within. As I posted at the beginning of this thread my heart wanted to leave but my head told/tells me staying is better.
Leavers don't all have the same single view of Brexit, though.
I have said before the Irish border is a big problem but will be resolved. Don't ask me how as I don't know but the Tories now seem confident that they can resolve.
On another note, The Spanish leader was supposed to be kicking up a fuss regarding Gibraltar and after a few words from the EU leaders he went back under his stone. Another problem sorted. It is becoming apparent that the EU is starting to back down on certain things.
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I think Spain is already on the Commission's naughty step. It probably won't be in a strong position to ask for many goodies.
Can we debunk some fake news....
I did not vote Brexit due to immigration. Although I believe we need to restrict certain undesirables from entering the UK. I had no problem with people wanting to come to the UK to study/work/live. Unfortunately, we were letting in known criminals that once in, committed crimes. That needed to stop. We also let in too many people that were just using our country for handouts or medical. I am all for helping people out but we need to sort out our own problems first.
I also agree that many people had different reasons for why they wanted to leave however they all had the same thing in common in that they wanted to leave. It just seems that people want to complicate this by saying we didn't know what we voted for, we did ...To leave, get over it!
My main reason for leaving was because the EU would never change or adapt. It has always been a closed shop and sadly the UK would have always been the little boy outside. The unelected that make the rules must not have that power over us or our laws.
The whole process has been hampered by in-house fighting, Brexit/ non-Brexit arguments. people determined to try and derail the process when you mix that all up and add David Davis you are in for a slow process.
This was always going to be a tough thing but I can see light at the end of the Channel tunnel.
As I have said before, you have a touching faith in your government. As for backing down it's been one way traffic up to now - May and Davies have caved at every turn. No matter though, just preliminaries so far, nearly two years on.
Every Leave voter seems to be quite certain that every other Leave voter had the same motivations as themselves, which is patently not true. And not one of them seems to want to admit that, whilst they themselves are definitely not racist, immigration was top of the list for most of their fellow Leavers. If we leave the EU, but stay in the Customs Union, most Leave voters should be satisfied with the fact that free movement is gone. Job done.
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What is wrong with wanting to stop immigration as it was
What is wrong with wanting to control who does and doesn't enter a country
Makes sense to take control of your own borders
If someone climbs out of a truck in Dover send them on the next train back to France
France can either keep em or send them back to wherever they entered France from
If you want to emigrate to a country do it properly
There will be a country by country case for increasing humanitarian quotas and some countries including nz can do better
I think we take 1000 per year
What is wrong with wanting to control who does and doesn't enter a country
Makes sense to take control of your own borders
If someone climbs out of a truck in Dover send them on the next train back to France
France can either keep em or send them back to wherever they entered France from
If you want to emigrate to a country do it properly
There will be a country by country case for increasing humanitarian quotas and some countries including nz can do better
I think we take 1000 per year
You mean the government or our government. I didn't vote for Blair but what would always say the government. TBH May and Co are getting stronger by the day. Can you imagine if it was left to Comedy Corbyn?
That would be a disaster. That disastrous PMQ's last week really did show the country what he is all about. I also listened to the awful Diane Abbott yesterday...
she is clueless. Seriously how anyone would vote Labour at the moment would make me question their sanity. Tories can be a bit stupid but at least they can run the economy. Every time Labour get in they ruin it and it's left to the Tories to clean up the mess. Just like under the Blair/Brown government.
That is a fairly broad sweep of most 'Leave' voters. I personally have always felt the UK was simply a convenient benefactor for an organisation that was unanswerable to our voters, who were determined in the long run to have a Federal Europe of which we would be a peripheral state simply paying more and more to have laws and decisions not in our best interests foisted upon us. Perhaps the only saving grace is the fact that Gordon Brown had the balls to insist we would not join the Euro when Blair and his cronies were pushing so hard for it...
Labour has carved for itself a nice little position, hasn’t it? The Tories come in to clean up the economic mess caused by Labour and, in doing so, is obliged to make a series of very unpopular decisions to get the job done. In opposition, Labour can exploit the ‘Nasty Tories’ mantra whilst promising Eldorado to the impressionable - promises they know they’re unlikely to deliver upon when back in power (at least not in a sustainable way) - in order to win back support. Your average Clapham Omnibus voter has a notoriously short memory, so gets seduced by these promises, votes Labour back in and the cycle begins again.
It reminds me of my formative years in Liberia. The US (largely through the likes of Firestone) ran the economic administration of the country. Periodically, when the populous saw that it was profitable, this was forced back into the hands of the Liberian government, only for greed and corruption to become rife, the economy fail, and the people invite the US back in to save it. Thus another revolution of the carousel.
You mean the government or our government. I didn't vote for Blair but what would always say the government. TBH May and Co are getting stronger by the day. Can you imagine if it was left to Comedy Corbyn?
This bit about Labour trashing the economy is plain wrong, but you lot keep trotting it out all the same.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/robert-eastwood/imf-and-labour's-economic-record
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/robert-eastwood/imf-and-labour's-economic-record
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OK, will do. Thanks for the permission.
That just shows the IMF got it wrong as well. Certainly the Tories were enjoying the benefits of the strong markets prior to the crash so can't really claim the moral high ground.
That wasn't a 'Labour' government in the context of the current leadership. Blair was probably more right of centre than Major and hated by the left who currently have control, you might even think he got out when the first signs of a downturn were becoming evident and passed the poisoned chalice to Brown. Their deregulation of the markets was as much to blame for the crash as the idiots who perpetrated it and were allowed to get away with it by both Brown and Cameron. Sadly, neither Tory nor Labour in their current guise seem to be the answer so the lack of a centre party with the gravitas to break this sick cycle will just see more of the same.
A giveaway on the economy might have been Liam Byrne's note left on the Chancellor's desk saying 'There's no money left'...
Deregulation started with Thatcher. Blair and Brown were culpable in that they continued the trend started by Thatcher, but at the time that the crash was brewing Cameron and Osborne were saying that deregulation hadn't gone far enough. The next Labour government (whether under Corbyn or somebody else) will be a different proposition. Good.