Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

I thought this might bring out the abuse in you. It does when you're on the defensive.

I know more about the law and lawyers than you will ever do, have come across many human rights lawyers and they were all, without exception, to use Stainsey's term, neo liberals.

Just in the interest of linguistic accuracy, here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of neo liberalism:


noun: neo-liberalism:
a political approach that favours free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.

If this is what you and Stainsey mean when you use the term, great. But I find your use of it really confusing as I think you mean something very different. Perhaps use ‘woke liberal lefties’ or something like that.

Are you a lawyer then?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Educated people often are, though it’s exceptionally unlikely you aren’t talking bollocks.

Nothing I said is untrue. It’s a vanity project to appease the same racist idiots who are now calling to leave the ECHR. The same morons who back the Rwanda plan. The same people constantly pandered to by this cesspit government to try and cling onto a few votes while the country rots.

In order for Labour to get into government, whatever the polls say, they will have to have a credible argument on illegal immigration. So far they have nothing, but asking France to help more. France that has its own severe immigrant problems. That won't convince anyone. The Tories are all over the place on this and will need to do something convincing. But so far, Sir Keir is ducking the issue completely. Good to see he now knows what a woman is though.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Just in the interest of linguistic accuracy, here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of neo liberalism:


noun: neo-liberalism:
a political approach that favours free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.

If this is what you and Stainsey mean when you use the term, great. But I find your use of it really confusing as I think you mean something very different. Perhaps use ‘woke liberal lefties’ or something like that.

Are you a lawyer then?

Happy to accept your definition (if Stainsey is!) Perhaps Metropolitan Elite Left is appropriate too. All this to distinguish from traditional working class left.

Yes, I'm a lawyer, retired. Professional liability not human rights.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

In order for Labour to get into government, whatever the polls say, they will have to have a credible argument on illegal immigration. So far they have nothing, but asking France to help more. France that has its own severe immigrant problems. That won't convince anyone. The Tories are all over the place on this and will need to do something convincing. But so far, Sir Keir is ducking the issue completely. Good to see he now knows what a woman is though.

It’s a completely toxic issue. Fortunately the Tories have managed to **** absolutely everything else as well as much as they’ll try to make the election about the immigration they’ve completely failed on for years.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

It’s a completely toxic issue. Fortunately the Tories have managed to **** absolutely everything else as well as much as they’ll try to make the election about the immigration they’ve completely failed on for years.

It is toxic, and not just in the UK. Greece has started turning boats back. I'm not clear as to the legality of that, I've heard opinions on both sides.

In fairness to the Tories, Rwanda has never been tested because the Court of Appeal held it breached ECHR law. Now goes to the Supreme Court. If that finds against, don't be surprised if we withdraw from the ECHR and proceed on Rwanda. Other desperate European countries are watching us for a precedent.

 

[sb_73]

Happy to accept your definition (if Stainsey is!) Perhaps Metropolitan Elite Left is appropriate too. All this to distinguish from traditional working class left.

Yes, I'm a lawyer, retired. Professional liability not human rights.

It’s not my definition, it’s the OEDs.

How come you mixed with all these corrupt human rights lawyers? Were you acting for them?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

It’s not my definition, it’s the OEDs.

How come you mixed with all these corrupt human rights lawyers? Were you acting for them?

I mixed with them socially, I was at Uni and Law college with a few. I instructed some. Not all HR do that kind work exclusively. Michael Mansfield or Cherie Blair have a broad range of briefs, for example. And also, because law is quite a small community, in London anyway, you know people and/ or their firms and their political views by reputation.

 

[Stroller]

That your best argument?

Watford's doing pretty well on the argument.

 

[Stroller]

It is toxic, and not just in the UK. Greece has started turning boats back. I'm not clear as to the legality of that, I've heard opinions on both sides.

In fairness to the Tories, Rwanda has never been tested because the Court of Appeal held it breached ECHR law. Now goes to the Supreme Court. If that finds against, don't be surprised if we withdraw from the ECHR and proceed on Rwanda. Other desperate European countries are watching us for a precedent.

Good luck on withdrawing from the ECHR before your scumbag government is kicked out on its sorry arse.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Good luck on withdrawing from the ECHR before your scumbag government is kicked out on its sorry arse.

As I say, Starmer still has to win the election, not just not lose it. He has to have a viable policy to deal with illegal migration. Hope for your sake he has something up his sleeve, or you may just have a weak coalition government that can't rule, another GE with Suella leading the Tories

 

[Staines R's]

Surely you lot on here can find a middle ground ?
It seems that one side is “open all borders”, and the other is “send the buggers back”.

Can’t there be some kind of way the 2 sides can come together or is that a hopeless task ?

 

[Staines R's]

Just in the interest of linguistic accuracy, here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of neo liberalism:


noun: neo-liberalism:
a political approach that favours free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.

If this is what you and Stainsey mean when you use the term, great. But I find your use of it really confusing as I think you mean something very different. Perhaps use ‘woke liberal lefties’ or something like that.

Are you a lawyer then?

Blair and “New Labour” were indeed Neo-Liberal in much of their thinking and policy making. And Starmers Labour Party is definitely more akin to the Labour Party of Blair than that of Foot…….Surely that’s obvious

 

[sb_73]

Blair and “New Labour” were indeed Neo-Liberal in much of their thinking and policy making. And Starmers Labour Party is definitely more akin to the Labour Party of Blair than that of Foot…….Surely that’s obvious

Yeah, no argument from me on that and as you know it’s little skin off my nose, I’m not standing up for any of them. But ‘neo liberal’ in most people’s terms is about Thatcher/Reagan/Truss voodoo economics, it’s confusing to include almost every mainstream political party under the same banner unless you make it clear that’s what you mean.


In my opinion.

As a representative of the ‘traditional, working class, left’ would you doff your cap to a ‘professional liability lawyer’ when he passed you on the street (you would be in the gutter of course)?

 

[Stroller]

Blair and “New Labour” were indeed Neo-Liberal in much of their thinking and policy making. And Starmers Labour Party is definitely more akin to the Labour Party of Blair than that of Foot…….Surely that’s obvious

It's ridiculous to call the Blair government or the Starmer Labour party neo-liberal. They're both further to the right than I would like but that term should be reserved for Thatcher disciples.

 

[Staines R's]

Yeah, no argument from me on that and as you know it’s little skin off my nose, I’m not standing up for any of them. But ‘neo liberal’ in most people’s terms is about Thatcher/Reagan/Truss voodoo economics, it’s confusing to include almost every mainstream political party under the same banner unless you make it clear that’s what you mean.


In my opinion.

As a representative of the ‘traditional, working class, left’ would you doff your cap to a ‘professional liability lawyer’ when he passed you on the street (you would be in the gutter of course)?

But we’re not talking about “most people’s terms”……we’re talking plain facts.
All I’ve done is presented the facts….it’s uncomfortable for some but they are the facts nonetheless.
Labour in its current form IS Neo-Liberal in its thinking (as is the EU and as was Blair).
Maybe I am living in the past and dreaming of something that won’t ever happen, as you say, times of a more “traditional working class and ethic”. Can’t help that

 

[Staines R's]

It's ridiculous to call the Blair government or the Starmer Labour party neo-liberal. They're both further to the right than I would like but that term should be reserved for Thatcher disciples.

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/re...ers/jessop-from-thatcherism-to-new-labour.pdf

I found this paper quite interesting and far from “ridiculous”.

 

[Stroller]

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/re...ers/jessop-from-thatcherism-to-new-labour.pdf

I found this paper quite interesting and far from “ridiculous”.

You read a lot of Jessop then?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

As a representative of the ‘traditional, working class, left’ would you doff your cap to a ‘professional liability lawyer’ when he passed you on the street (you would be in the gutter of course)?

You really are a catty old tart, Stan. You get worse with age, the bitterness must be eating you up. You contribute little to this thread but make it your life's work to snipe from the side. A Pound Shop Oskar Wilde

 

[Staines R's]

You read a lot of Jessop then?

Not particularly, why do you ask ? Do you disagree with his paper then ?

 

[Stroller]

Not particularly, why do you ask ? Do you disagree with his paper then ?

When was it written? His definition of Neo-Liberalism seems very out of date. I see he's also a fan of Globalisation - that term has been hijacked too.