Is that the Tory Govt that brought in the living wage and furloughing? You're living in the C19th
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Is that the Tory Govt that brought in the living wage and furloughing? You're living in the C19th
With respect Fin, that’s exactly where they are NOW. Lower pay, less holiday, far worse conditions of employment, zero hour contracts (by another name)......it really is appalling.
Sorry to say it’s far to late and it’s a done deal. Sorry I sound bitter...but when I hear of Employees committing suicide over all this, it does get me ****ed off.
Labour brought in the minimum wage - of which the so-called living wage is merely an extension - and the Tories squealed. The furlough scheme has been rightly praised but the acid test on it will come next month.
Why would the Tories not want to sign up to the LPF on workers' rights?
My understanding is the level playing field point relates to the ability for the UK to give subsidies to companies in trouble, which is good for worker's jobs and a policy of the Labour Party. The EU would stop this even though Germany and France regularly break the rules to help their own national companies
The furlough scheme can't go on forever. A lot of people have done well by it. A number including employers have used it illegally, and hopefully there will be a reckoning at some stage
Since when were Tory governments interested in bailing out ailing companies to save jobs? If that really was the sticking point, and they said that they were happy to align with the EU on workers' rights, environmental protections and food standards, I would agree with them.
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Even if they did, form suggests they’ll just rip that up in a year if it suits them anyway.
IAG has been an impending disaster waiting to happen for some years, as have a number of the other "flag" carriers
Longstanding employees have terms which are frequently generous by comparison with newer airlines and whatever your view on the Easyjets, Ryanairs etc (the "low cost" carriers) employee Ts and Cs, they have placed enormous cost pressures on the older airlines
BA is heavily dependent upon transatlantic routes for its income, and with the cyclical nature of the industry it simply has to reduce costs across the board if it is to have a viable future
Of course travel patterns post COVID may further exacerbate this. If BA loses a lot of the very lucrative transatlantic business traffic - as potentially fewer flights are made - we could see a significantly smaller BA longer term
Lufthansa have been going through the same pain as have Air France
One of my next door neighbours was a long haul stewardess for BA and she reckoned her total package (she'd been at BA over 15 years) was twice what she could get at Easyjet
Structural issues have affected or are affecting many industries - I'm old enough to have lived through the 70s / 80s coal and steel strikes.
Longstanding employees have terms which are frequently generous by comparison with newer airlines and whatever your view on the Easyjets, Ryanairs etc (the "low cost" carriers) employee Ts and Cs, they have placed enormous cost pressures on the older airlines
BA is heavily dependent upon transatlantic routes for its income, and with the cyclical nature of the industry it simply has to reduce costs across the board if it is to have a viable future
Of course travel patterns post COVID may further exacerbate this. If BA loses a lot of the very lucrative transatlantic business traffic - as potentially fewer flights are made - we could see a significantly smaller BA longer term
Lufthansa have been going through the same pain as have Air France
One of my next door neighbours was a long haul stewardess for BA and she reckoned her total package (she'd been at BA over 15 years) was twice what she could get at Easyjet
Structural issues have affected or are affecting many industries - I'm old enough to have lived through the 70s / 80s coal and steel strikes.
I should add though that I'm not advocating the fire everyone and re-employ strategy
Though I see that IAG seems to have backtracked on this now
Though I see that IAG seems to have backtracked on this now
From what I read, that's what the EU are frightened of. That UK companies will have a competitive edge by being helped by government funds. The government should not align to the standards of any foreign power imo, whether EU, America or China. We make our own standards. If the Tories pull the rug on workers, Labour will get in, but the way things are going, the Tories support UK workers, and Labour (under Corbyn anyway) took a more international approach and was interested in supporting poor countries around the world
The German Govt bailed out Lufthansa to the tune of £8 billion earlier this year. Just the sort of act that Barnier is telling the UK it cannot do if it wants a trade deal.
The French government has promised to bail out Brittany Ferries after claims that the cross-channel ferry operator could go bankrupt under pressure from Brexit, the pandemic and Britain’s decision to quarantine passengers arriving from France.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bailout-vow-as-brittany-ferries-sinks-0msttgkcf
Sorry...
Air France-KLM Wins EU Approval for $7.7 Billion Bailout
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...u-approval-for-eu7b-french-guarantee-and-loan
Air France-KLM Wins EU Approval for $7.7 Billion Bailout
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...u-approval-for-eu7b-french-guarantee-and-loan
Why do you say that? They just want us to have the same rules. If it's OK for Germany and France, it's OK for us. As I said though, Tory governments are usually against bail-outs anyway.
But do you put that as the fault of the workers who signed their contracts many years ago and have worked bloody hard to keep the airline going when it reached rock bottom during the many crisis that have hit (Gulf war 1 and 2, economic downturn, 9/11, SARS, etc etc) ?
If so then that opens a lot of doors for employers in ANY industry to say....’sorry guys I know you were paid x amount when I signed you up, but the other company down the road are now paying y amount so we’re gonna do the same’. Does that seem fair ? And if so doesn’t that make a work contract utterly pointless and meaningless. By all means let the better off paid from years ago see out their years and retire, all the time bringing in cheaper labour...but fire and rehire is wrong...surely ?
Maybe ask your stewardess neighbour about the conditions offered to her colleagues in the 2012 contract that BA have had for sometime. Trust me, it really isn’t very good.
Many in BA circles saw it coming once WW and AC were put in charge and got out quick....I’m so pleased I did.
If we meet up one day mate I’ll tell you what BA have done.....it’s seriously not pretty
Within the EU, subsidies from governments or any other public bodies to businesses are generally prohibited by the State Aid rules, which are enforced strictly by the European Commission. But since Germany controls the Commission, it seems it is a bit more privileged than others
I certainly don't blame the staff. I doubt many people would voluntarily take a pay cut even if they knew they were being paid more than someone else doing the same job
Many companies have similar discrepancies but few on the same scale and I guess that is what - when combined as you quite rightly point out with externally driven financial shocks - is stressing the business
I was made redundant last year as my then employer decided to "reorganise" to dispense with my relatively expensive services and bring in someone cheaper but with less experience and to hive off part of my role externally. Painful to accept given I enjoyed my job and the business, but it gave me the impetus to do something different.
I was lucky that I had transferable skills - a bit trickier if you are (for example) a pilot being made redundant
I'm just hoping that I don't have reason to meet up with you in your new professional capacity!
Mate it seems we both had similar experiences. I never thought I’d leave BA and saw it as a job for life, and I’d retire after 60 years with a nice certificate and a handshake from the CEO (Yeah right
).I like many saw that the writing was on the wall for us ‘mature’ workers and that the time was right for a new challenge, all be it pretty late in life. Personally I, and many others, see that this crisis has been a perfect opportunity for BA to get rid of staff and to bring them back on lower wages and worse conditions....just what they wanted.
Meanwhile taking over other airlines for a billion euros (Air Europa), having 8 billion in cash reserves and paying their outgoing chairman a golden handshake of 3 million.