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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    Good decision by Glasgow City Council to ban all sectarian marches. Northern Ireland should follow suit. The whole point of sectarian marches is to celebrate battles from centuries ago and to upset the other community. Some towns in NI have marches every one or two weeks. Ban the whole lot of them and the world would be a more peaceful place.
     
    #37821
  2. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    On that basis, shouldn't we be telling the Americans to pack Independence Day up? :emoticon-0100-smile
     
    #37822
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  3. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    If the manner in which they celebrate upsets you, go right ahead. If not, then don't.
     
    #37823
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  4. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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  5. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Don't see many riots on the streets of America during those parades though.....or priests being spat on......or the Union flag being burnt
     
    #37825
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  6. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    Or the Irish tri-colour being burnt. The whole lot of it is just complete nonsense. It is disguised as being a way of expressing culture. Well, if anybody's culture involves celebrating a battle from 330 years ago, I think it is time they moved on and lived in the 21st century with the rest of us.
     
    #37826
  7. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    I think your broad points are good. The marches are being used to perpetrate division, perpetuate identity, mark territory etc. I'm not mad keen on banning things and I'm not sure it wouldn't make things worse. But certain civilised levels of behaviour must be expected, and bans could follow if these aren't met.
     
    #37827
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  8. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is a politician with the balls to ban them, it takes very little for the old hatred to surface and that would be one surefire way to bring it on...
     
    #37828
  9. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    The problem is our laws regarding freedom of speech and the right to march/protest are an important part of our democracy, and such gatherings can only be banned if there is sufficient evidence that these gatherings will cause trouble, as has been the case in Glasgow over the last two weekends. A blanket ban would be deemed by either side as a silencing of their rights, and as you say, no politician is willing to go down that road.
     
    #37829
  10. Shawswood

    Shawswood Well-Known Member

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    Look at the resistance when they have simply tried to re-route a march in the recent past, to attempt to ban them in Northern Ireland would be a tricky proposition to say the least. Not going to happen
     
    #37830

  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    I think that's right. There have been some decent brains applied to this problem over the years, not least George Mitchell, one of the architects of the Good Friday agreement. If there was an easy solution, someone would have come up with it. It's just an uneasy balance that's needed, and the hope that the next generation will value peace and prosperity over sectarian identity, petty revenge and misguided family traditions.
     
    #37831
  12. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    It's the same in Glasgow. They managed to re-route an Orange walk earlier this year as the year before a Catholic priest had been spat on and vebally abused outside of his church as the march went past, causing mayhem. The Orange order took the council to court, who upheld the re-routing, then appealed it to the High Court, who also upheld the decision.

    Yesterday, several hundred Orangemen descended on City Hall to protest that the marches had been cancelled, and whilst denouncing the violence of previous weekends, defended their right saying it was a Nationalist agenda against the Protestant faith FFS. How many parades do these morons want - they must be the fittest men in Glasgow with all the walking they do!
     
    #37832
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  13. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly the point. It is a never ending provocation of the other community by both sides, although I would say one side has more marches than the other. All the trouble starts in Northern Ireland during the marching season. When the marching season finishes, it all calms down. We all need to learn something from this and move on and forget who won battles from the 17th Century.
     
    #37833
  14. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    I see the 'intellectually superior' Remoaners have turned their guns on the owner of Wetherspoons, the hashtag tells you they've embarrassed themselves again...

     
    #37834
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  15. peter1954qpr

    peter1954qpr Well-Known Member

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    Herman Van Rompuy says Brexit 'has changed EU view of Scotland'

    By Glenn Campbell Chief political correspondent, BBC Scotland

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    Van Rompuy: Europe 'looking at what Scotland is in favour of'
    A former president of the European Council has said he believes Brexit has changed EU attitudes to Scottish independence.

    In a BBC interview, Herman Van Rompuy said there was now "much more sympathy" for European regions seeking EU membership.

    Mr Van Rompuy said the process of joining the EU was "complicated".

    But he said an application from Scotland would have to be "very seriously" considered.

    The UK government does not support Scottish government calls for another independence referendum.

    On 18 September, it will be five years since Scotland voted 55% to 45% against becoming an independent country.

    At that time, SNP leaders said it was a "once in a generation" referendum but they have since argued that Brexit fundamentally changes the circumstances.

    This is because the 2016 EU referendum saw the UK as a whole vote to leave, while Scottish voters backed remain by 62% to 38%.

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    Scotland voted 55% to 45% against becoming an independent country in September 2014

    Mr Van Rompuy said that the UK's decision to leave the EU had certainly altered European attitudes to Scottish independence.

    He said: "I think there is a change, yes, because for a lot of people they are looking at what Scottish people are in favour of.

    "They want to stay in the European Union and at the same time they are prevented to stay in the European Union."

    The Scottish government's Brexit Secretary, Mike Russell, said the comments were "welcome" and that an independent Scotland had a "strong contribution" to make to the EU.

    However, The Scottish Secretary in the UK government, Alister Jack, said Scotland was "better served" in the UK, rather than joining the EU and "giving away" democratic and fishing rights.

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    Mr Van Rompuy said there was more sympathy for regions of a country that wanted to join the EU

    Mr Van Rompuy said there was not much sympathy for Brexit in the EU among political leaders or the man or woman in the street.

    He added: "There is much more sympathy for regions - parts of a country - that want to join the European Union."

    Political dimension

    Mr Van Rompuy - who chaired EU summits between 2009 and 2014 before handing over to Donald Tusk - said any indyref2 must be agreed with the UK.

    If there was a Yes vote in a referendum that was "constitutional" he said Scotland would have a "legal case".

    "Then, of course the outcome has to be considered by the European Union very seriously," he said.

    But Mr Van Rompuy pointed out there was also a political dimension - and that all 27 EU countries would have to consent.

    He said: "There is no automaticity, there are rules to be respected and we have all to agree on a new candidate."

    Mr Van Rompuy said there were still "hesitations" about Scottish independence in Spain, which is concerned about Catalonia breaking away.

    He added: "It is a complicated process. Even leaving the UK is a complicated process - as complicated as Britain leaving the European Union."

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    Mr Van Rompuy said the situation in Scotland was very different to the one in Catalonia

    As a former prime minister of Belgium, which has a Flemish nationalist movement, he is not personally enthusiastic about the UK breaking up.

    "I fought all my life against separatism in my own country, so don't ask me to applaud when this would happen," he said.

    Mr Van Rompuy has previously warned that leaving the EU without a deal would pose an "existential threat" to the UK.

    In his BBC Scotland interview, he said UK politicians "take risks not only for the prosperity of the British people but also for the unity of the United Kingdom".

    Special treatment

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, said: "I would say Scotland's place is better served staying in the United Kingdom rather than leaving the UK, joining the EU and giving away both democratic rights and also our coastal fisheries which will be of great value to us".

    However, the Scottish government's Brexit Secretary Mike Russell said: "There is clearly real sympathy and understanding for Scotland's position in Europe, particularly given the hard-line anti-EU position of the UK government."

    The European Policy Centre think-tank, of which Mr Van Rompuy is president, recently published an analysis on independent Scottish membership of the EU.

    It concluded that the EU should "engage positively" with Scotland in the event of independence, if there had been a properly constituted referendum.

    But it said Scotland could not expect "special treatment" and that the Scottish government would have to accept all the obligations of membership, including agreeing in principle to join the euro.

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    Has Brexit changed opinions on Scottish independence?

    The paper was produced by the centre's chief executive, Fabian Zuleeg, who also serves as an adviser to the Scottish government on Europe.

    He notes that the EU institutions were "rather negative" towards Scottish independence in 2014, partly due to concerns about encouraging secessionist movements in other EU countries.

    At that time, the president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barosso, said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for Scotland to secure EU membership.

    'Third country'

    Mr Van Rompuy was also perceived to cast doubt on independent Scottish membership of the EU when he made comments about Catalonia.

    But the former EU Council chief is clear that there is a "big difference" between the cases of Catalonia and Scotland.

    In his view, it would be "unthinkable" for Catalonia to be considered for EU membership because its referendum is regarded as illegal by Spain.

    Scotland, he said, would be treated "otherwise" if it had a legally-agreed referendum.

    He also warned the UK that it would not enjoy the same solidarity the EU had afforded it in 2014 in the event of another Scottish referendum.

    "If the UK is not a member of the European Union anymore, what kind of solidarity are you speaking about?" Mr Van Rompuy said.

    Asked if solidarity with the UK would no longer exist, he said: "no, it's a third country".[/QUOTE]

    Lovely Jubbly we can rebuild Hadrian's wall
     
    #37835
  16. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Lovely Jubbly we can rebuild Hadrian's wall[/QUOTE]



    I can see Boris announcing it in the Commons with a slight American drawl... "We're gonna build a wall..."
     
    #37836
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  17. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Well you lot down there can pay for it! <laugh>

    Probably get some Poles and Romanians to build it for you, they'd be cheap <laugh>
     
    #37837
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  18. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Romans built it and Romanians rebuilt it. Sounds about right!
     
    #37838
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  19. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    The Roman one will still last longer giving today's a 2,000 year start...
     
    #37839
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  20. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    This is f*cking outrageous, a total insult to chimpanzees...

     
    #37840
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