Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Well done Glasgow City Council.....<applause>

Five Glasgow marches banned over sectarian disorder fears

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A march in Govan two weeks ago led to violent disorder

Five marches planned for this weekend have been banned by Glasgow City Council after an emergency meeting.

It follows violent sectarian disturbances at similar events over the past two weekends.

Four Loyalist parades and an Irish Republican march planned for Saturday and Sunday will not be allowed to go ahead due to the threat of trouble.

The decision was taken by an urgently arranged meeting of Glasgow City Council's Public Processions Committee.

In what has been described as an unprecedented move, council officials recommended that all five processions this weekend be prohibited.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661504

Not a popular move with some....

Loyalist protest over Glasgow marches ban - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49690444

Personally, I hope they ban them permanently, although it looks unlikely

Can Glasgow ban all marches over sectarian fears? - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49651136

There are over 300 parades a year in Glasgow alone, and although most pass off without incident, there seems to be a rise in tensions this year, I wonder what could be fueling that......? These people really need to move into the 21st Century, both Loyalist and Republican, there's no need to be dragging up tensions that are over 300 years old.
Good decision by Glasgow City Council to ban all sectarian marches. Northern Ireland should follow suit. The whole point of sectarian marches is to celebrate battles from centuries ago and to upset the other community. Some towns in NI have marches every one or two weeks. Ban the whole lot of them and the world would be a more peaceful place.
 
Good decision by Glasgow City Council to ban all sectarian marches. Northern Ireland should follow suit. The whole point of sectarian marches is to celebrate battles from centuries ago and to upset the other community. Some towns in NI have marches every one or two weeks. Ban the whole lot of them and the world would be a more peaceful place.

On that basis, shouldn't we be telling the Americans to pack Independence Day up? :emoticon-0100-smile
 
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If the manner in which they celebrate upsets you, go right ahead. If not, then don't.

Don't see many riots on the streets of America during those parades though.....or priests being spat on......or the Union flag being burnt

I think your broad points are good. The marches are being used to perpetrate division, perpetuate identity, mark territory etc. I'm not mad keen on banning things and I'm not sure it wouldn't make things worse. But certain civilised levels of behaviour must be expected, and bans could follow if these aren't met.
 
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I think your broad points are good. The marches are being used to perpetrate division, perpetuate identity, mark territory etc. I'm not mad keen on banning things and I'm not sure it wouldn't make things worse. But certain civilised levels of behaviour must be expected, and bans could follow if these aren't met.

I don't think there is a politician with the balls to ban them, it takes very little for the old hatred to surface and that would be one surefire way to bring it on...
 
I don't think there is a politician with the balls to ban them, it takes very little for the old hatred to surface and that would be one surefire way to bring it on...

The problem is our laws regarding freedom of speech and the right to march/protest are an important part of our democracy, and such gatherings can only be banned if there is sufficient evidence that these gatherings will cause trouble, as has been the case in Glasgow over the last two weekends. A blanket ban would be deemed by either side as a silencing of their rights, and as you say, no politician is willing to go down that road.
 
Look at the resistance when they have simply tried to re-route a march in the recent past, to attempt to ban them in Northern Ireland would be a tricky proposition to say the least. Not going to happen
 
I don't think there is a politician with the balls to ban them, it takes very little for the old hatred to surface and that would be one surefire way to bring it on...

I think that's right. There have been some decent brains applied to this problem over the years, not least George Mitchell, one of the architects of the Good Friday agreement. If there was an easy solution, someone would have come up with it. It's just an uneasy balance that's needed, and the hope that the next generation will value peace and prosperity over sectarian identity, petty revenge and misguided family traditions.
 
Look at the resistance when they have simply tried to re-route a march in the recent past, to attempt to ban them in Northern Ireland would be a tricky proposition to say the least. Not going to happen

It's the same in Glasgow. They managed to re-route an Orange walk earlier this year as the year before a Catholic priest had been spat on and vebally abused outside of his church as the march went past, causing mayhem. The Orange order took the council to court, who upheld the re-routing, then appealed it to the High Court, who also upheld the decision.

Yesterday, several hundred Orangemen descended on City Hall to protest that the marches had been cancelled, and whilst denouncing the violence of previous weekends, defended their right saying it was a Nationalist agenda against the Protestant faith FFS. How many parades do these morons want - they must be the fittest men in Glasgow with all the walking they do!
 
It's the same in Glasgow. They managed to re-route an Orange walk earlier this year as the year before a Catholic priest had been spat on and vebally abused outside of his church as the march went past, causing mayhem. The Orange order took the council to court, who upheld the re-routing, then appealed it to the High Court, who also upheld the decision.

Yesterday, several hundred Orangemen descended on City Hall to protest that the marches had been cancelled, and whilst denouncing the violence of previous weekends, defended their right saying it was a Nationalist agenda against the Protestant faith FFS. How many parades do these morons want - they must be the fittest men in Glasgow with all the walking they do!
That's exactly the point. It is a never ending provocation of the other community by both sides, although I would say one side has more marches than the other. All the trouble starts in Northern Ireland during the marching season. When the marching season finishes, it all calms down. We all need to learn something from this and move on and forget who won battles from the 17th Century.
 
Herman Van Rompuy says Brexit 'has changed EU view of Scotland'

By Glenn Campbell Chief political correspondent, BBC Scotland

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Van Rompuy: Europe 'looking at what Scotland is in favour of'
A former president of the European Council has said he believes Brexit has changed EU attitudes to Scottish independence.

In a BBC interview, Herman Van Rompuy said there was now "much more sympathy" for European regions seeking EU membership.

Mr Van Rompuy said the process of joining the EU was "complicated".

But he said an application from Scotland would have to be "very seriously" considered.

The UK government does not support Scottish government calls for another independence referendum.

On 18 September, it will be five years since Scotland voted 55% to 45% against becoming an independent country.

At that time, SNP leaders said it was a "once in a generation" referendum but they have since argued that Brexit fundamentally changes the circumstances.

This is because the 2016 EU referendum saw the UK as a whole vote to leave, while Scottish voters backed remain by 62% to 38%.

You must log in or register to see images


Scotland voted 55% to 45% against becoming an independent country in September 2014

Mr Van Rompuy said that the UK's decision to leave the EU had certainly altered European attitudes to Scottish independence.

He said: "I think there is a change, yes, because for a lot of people they are looking at what Scottish people are in favour of.

"They want to stay in the European Union and at the same time they are prevented to stay in the European Union."

The Scottish government's Brexit Secretary, Mike Russell, said the comments were "welcome" and that an independent Scotland had a "strong contribution" to make to the EU.

However, The Scottish Secretary in the UK government, Alister Jack, said Scotland was "better served" in the UK, rather than joining the EU and "giving away" democratic and fishing rights.

You must log in or register to see images

Mr Van Rompuy said there was more sympathy for regions of a country that wanted to join the EU

Mr Van Rompuy said there was not much sympathy for Brexit in the EU among political leaders or the man or woman in the street.

He added: "There is much more sympathy for regions - parts of a country - that want to join the European Union."

Political dimension

Mr Van Rompuy - who chaired EU summits between 2009 and 2014 before handing over to Donald Tusk - said any indyref2 must be agreed with the UK.

If there was a Yes vote in a referendum that was "constitutional" he said Scotland would have a "legal case".

"Then, of course the outcome has to be considered by the European Union very seriously," he said.

But Mr Van Rompuy pointed out there was also a political dimension - and that all 27 EU countries would have to consent.

He said: "There is no automaticity, there are rules to be respected and we have all to agree on a new candidate."

Mr Van Rompuy said there were still "hesitations" about Scottish independence in Spain, which is concerned about Catalonia breaking away.

He added: "It is a complicated process. Even leaving the UK is a complicated process - as complicated as Britain leaving the European Union."

You must log in or register to see images

Mr Van Rompuy said the situation in Scotland was very different to the one in Catalonia

As a former prime minister of Belgium, which has a Flemish nationalist movement, he is not personally enthusiastic about the UK breaking up.

"I fought all my life against separatism in my own country, so don't ask me to applaud when this would happen," he said.

Mr Van Rompuy has previously warned that leaving the EU without a deal would pose an "existential threat" to the UK.

In his BBC Scotland interview, he said UK politicians "take risks not only for the prosperity of the British people but also for the unity of the United Kingdom".

Special treatment

Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, said: "I would say Scotland's place is better served staying in the United Kingdom rather than leaving the UK, joining the EU and giving away both democratic rights and also our coastal fisheries which will be of great value to us".

However, the Scottish government's Brexit Secretary Mike Russell said: "There is clearly real sympathy and understanding for Scotland's position in Europe, particularly given the hard-line anti-EU position of the UK government."

The European Policy Centre think-tank, of which Mr Van Rompuy is president, recently published an analysis on independent Scottish membership of the EU.

It concluded that the EU should "engage positively" with Scotland in the event of independence, if there had been a properly constituted referendum.

But it said Scotland could not expect "special treatment" and that the Scottish government would have to accept all the obligations of membership, including agreeing in principle to join the euro.

You must log in or register to see images


Has Brexit changed opinions on Scottish independence?

The paper was produced by the centre's chief executive, Fabian Zuleeg, who also serves as an adviser to the Scottish government on Europe.

He notes that the EU institutions were "rather negative" towards Scottish independence in 2014, partly due to concerns about encouraging secessionist movements in other EU countries.

At that time, the president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barosso, said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for Scotland to secure EU membership.

'Third country'

Mr Van Rompuy was also perceived to cast doubt on independent Scottish membership of the EU when he made comments about Catalonia.

But the former EU Council chief is clear that there is a "big difference" between the cases of Catalonia and Scotland.

In his view, it would be "unthinkable" for Catalonia to be considered for EU membership because its referendum is regarded as illegal by Spain.

Scotland, he said, would be treated "otherwise" if it had a legally-agreed referendum.

He also warned the UK that it would not enjoy the same solidarity the EU had afforded it in 2014 in the event of another Scottish referendum.

"If the UK is not a member of the European Union anymore, what kind of solidarity are you speaking about?" Mr Van Rompuy said.

Asked if solidarity with the UK would no longer exist, he said: "no, it's a third country".[/QUOTE]

Lovely Jubbly we can rebuild Hadrian's wall
 
Herman Van Rompuy says Brexit 'has changed EU view of Scotland'

By Glenn Campbell Chief political correspondent, BBC Scotland

You must log in or register to see images


Van Rompuy: Europe 'looking at what Scotland is in favour of'
A former president of the European Council has said he believes Brexit has changed EU attitudes to Scottish independence.

In a BBC interview, Herman Van Rompuy said there was now "much more sympathy" for European regions seeking EU membership.

Mr Van Rompuy said the process of joining the EU was "complicated".

But he said an application from Scotland would have to be "very seriously" considered.

The UK government does not support Scottish government calls for another independence referendum.

On 18 September, it will be five years since Scotland voted 55% to 45% against becoming an independent country.

At that time, SNP leaders said it was a "once in a generation" referendum but they have since argued that Brexit fundamentally changes the circumstances.

This is because the 2016 EU referendum saw the UK as a whole vote to leave, while Scottish voters backed remain by 62% to 38%.

You must log in or register to see images


Scotland voted 55% to 45% against becoming an independent country in September 2014

Mr Van Rompuy said that the UK's decision to leave the EU had certainly altered European attitudes to Scottish independence.

He said: "I think there is a change, yes, because for a lot of people they are looking at what Scottish people are in favour of.

"They want to stay in the European Union and at the same time they are prevented to stay in the European Union."

The Scottish government's Brexit Secretary, Mike Russell, said the comments were "welcome" and that an independent Scotland had a "strong contribution" to make to the EU.

However, The Scottish Secretary in the UK government, Alister Jack, said Scotland was "better served" in the UK, rather than joining the EU and "giving away" democratic and fishing rights.

You must log in or register to see images

Mr Van Rompuy said there was more sympathy for regions of a country that wanted to join the EU

Mr Van Rompuy said there was not much sympathy for Brexit in the EU among political leaders or the man or woman in the street.

He added: "There is much more sympathy for regions - parts of a country - that want to join the European Union."

Political dimension

Mr Van Rompuy - who chaired EU summits between 2009 and 2014 before handing over to Donald Tusk - said any indyref2 must be agreed with the UK.

If there was a Yes vote in a referendum that was "constitutional" he said Scotland would have a "legal case".

"Then, of course the outcome has to be considered by the European Union very seriously," he said.

But Mr Van Rompuy pointed out there was also a political dimension - and that all 27 EU countries would have to consent.

He said: "There is no automaticity, there are rules to be respected and we have all to agree on a new candidate."

Mr Van Rompuy said there were still "hesitations" about Scottish independence in Spain, which is concerned about Catalonia breaking away.

He added: "It is a complicated process. Even leaving the UK is a complicated process - as complicated as Britain leaving the European Union."

You must log in or register to see images

Mr Van Rompuy said the situation in Scotland was very different to the one in Catalonia

As a former prime minister of Belgium, which has a Flemish nationalist movement, he is not personally enthusiastic about the UK breaking up.

"I fought all my life against separatism in my own country, so don't ask me to applaud when this would happen," he said.

Mr Van Rompuy has previously warned that leaving the EU without a deal would pose an "existential threat" to the UK.

In his BBC Scotland interview, he said UK politicians "take risks not only for the prosperity of the British people but also for the unity of the United Kingdom".

Special treatment

Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, said: "I would say Scotland's place is better served staying in the United Kingdom rather than leaving the UK, joining the EU and giving away both democratic rights and also our coastal fisheries which will be of great value to us".

However, the Scottish government's Brexit Secretary Mike Russell said: "There is clearly real sympathy and understanding for Scotland's position in Europe, particularly given the hard-line anti-EU position of the UK government."

The European Policy Centre think-tank, of which Mr Van Rompuy is president, recently published an analysis on independent Scottish membership of the EU.

It concluded that the EU should "engage positively" with Scotland in the event of independence, if there had been a properly constituted referendum.

But it said Scotland could not expect "special treatment" and that the Scottish government would have to accept all the obligations of membership, including agreeing in principle to join the euro.

You must log in or register to see images


Has Brexit changed opinions on Scottish independence?

The paper was produced by the centre's chief executive, Fabian Zuleeg, who also serves as an adviser to the Scottish government on Europe.

He notes that the EU institutions were "rather negative" towards Scottish independence in 2014, partly due to concerns about encouraging secessionist movements in other EU countries.

At that time, the president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barosso, said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for Scotland to secure EU membership.

'Third country'

Mr Van Rompuy was also perceived to cast doubt on independent Scottish membership of the EU when he made comments about Catalonia.

But the former EU Council chief is clear that there is a "big difference" between the cases of Catalonia and Scotland.

In his view, it would be "unthinkable" for Catalonia to be considered for EU membership because its referendum is regarded as illegal by Spain.

Scotland, he said, would be treated "otherwise" if it had a legally-agreed referendum.

He also warned the UK that it would not enjoy the same solidarity the EU had afforded it in 2014 in the event of another Scottish referendum.

"If the UK is not a member of the European Union anymore, what kind of solidarity are you speaking about?" Mr Van Rompuy said.

Asked if solidarity with the UK would no longer exist, he said: "no, it's a third country".

Lovely Jubbly we can rebuild Hadrian's wall[/QUOTE]



I can see Boris announcing it in the Commons with a slight American drawl... "We're gonna build a wall..."
 
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