Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Stroller]

Are you cut off from the rest of the world? Corbyn stood up in the Commons and started putting down his own red lines on participating in conversations about the way forward. Mainly that ‘no deal’ must not be an option. It was grandstanding bullshit, anybody who has been following this knows that the Commons has the ability to prevent a no deal, he doesn’t need a promise from May.

I don’t know what gallery he was playing to, certainly not the electorate which just wants things sorted. He is part of the problem. The man who goes on and on about starting dialogues with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran etc (not requiring them to renounce murder before he does so) but can’t bring himself to talk to people he doesn’t agree with on ideological grounds. Found out.

He needs to be honest with himself and his supporters. All versions of ‘soft Brexit’ are worse than staying in, because you play by most of the EU rules with no say over them. So the choice should be between staying in and a Canada style trade deal - which Tusk offered a year ago. The former does not deliver on the referendum or ‘taking back control’. The latter guarantees short term at least economic problems, especially for the service sector. That is the choice we should have been given two and a half years ago. Instead we have wasted time in some fantasy world where we can have the benefits of both staying and leaving which was never on the table and never will be.

Parliament certainly has the will to prevent a No-Deal exit, but does it have the means? Until and unless a deal is signed, or Article 50 is revoked, we leave on 29th March with no deal. Corbyn should meet May to discuss alternatives to her deal, but it would be a fruitless exercise unless she is willing to undraw or bend her red lines, which she has given no indication of being prepared to do. I really believe that she is so blindly stubborn that she still thinks that she can get her deal through with a few tweaks and the retained threat of 'My Deal or No-Deal'. That is why Corbyn wants her to rule out No-Deal before agreeing to discussions.

How can a Canada-style deal be an option until the Irish border issue is resolved?

 

[ELLERS]

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[Stroller]

I’m not saying others aren’t to blame but this mess was brought about entirely by the Tories in an attempt to stop voters and politicians defecting to UKIP. The dreadful, unimaginative and naive Remain campaign was Tory-led and the quite brilliant in some ways, but ultimately illegal Leave campaign(s) was Tory-led. The decision to have a GE when Corbyn was apparently weakest was a Tory one and she lost her majority, the stupid cow, to now have to be propped up by hardline Irish lunatics. This whole last three years has been a huge ****ing Tory farce and on paper I should be more Tory than most.

A Tory ****-up from start to finish.

 

[ELLERS]

Parliament certainly has the will to prevent a No-Deal exit, but does it have the means? Until and unless a deal is signed, or Article 50 is revoked, we leave on 29th March with no deal. Corbyn should meet May to discuss alternatives to her deal, but it would be a fruitless exercise unless she is willing to undraw or bend her red lines, which she has given no indication of being prepared to do. I really believe that she is so blindly stubborn that she still thinks that she can get her deal through with a few tweaks and the retained threat of 'My Deal or No-Deal'. That is why Corbyn wants her to rule out No-Deal before agreeing to discussions.

How can a Canada-style deal be an option until the Irish border issue is resolved?

She doesn't really want to meet him anyway. Some bloke has just said on BBC that she is crap with interaction with people to discuss stuff. She can't do the pleasantries/buddy buddy.
Canada ++++++++ - the backstop. which they should have sorted 2 years ago.

 

[sb_73]

Parliament certainly has the will to prevent a No-Deal exit, but does it have the means? Until and unless a deal is signed, or Article 50 is revoked, we leave on 29th March with no deal. Corbyn should meet May to discuss alternatives to her deal, but it would be a fruitless exercise unless she is willing to undraw or bend her red lines, which she has given no indication of being prepared to do. I really believe that she is so blindly stubborn that she still thinks that she can get her deal through with a few tweaks and the retained threat of 'My Deal or No-Deal'. That is why Corbyn wants her to rule out No-Deal before agreeing to discussions.

How can a Canada-style deal be an option until the Irish border issue is resolved?

The Canada deal solves the Irish border issue. There will be a hard border there, like there will be between the rest of the UK and the EU. It’s bad news for the people of Ireland, who didn’t vote for this, but for the Northern Irish that’s the price of staying in the precious Union. Perhaps it will encourage them all to think about their long term future. As we apparently live in a time when policy is made by a difference of 1.2m votes in a referendum, I fail to see why the future of 60 plus million people is held hostage to the needs of the 6 million inhabitants of Ireland. We work on simple majority wins now, it seems.

Admittedly we would probably have to crash out with a no deal Brexit before we could get to a trade deal, the impact on everyone would force some expedited negotiations, and even a **** deal will seem good compared to nothing, especially in Ireland.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of Corbyn in placing pre conditions on discussions with May, while he’s happy to hobnob with terrorists on whom he places no pre conditions at all. I entirely agree that May is a stupid, stubborn PM, putting her and an idiot like Corbyn in a room together isn’t going to solve anything.

There was a refreshing blast of honest fresh air on the wireless this morning, first from Denis Skinner who said he wanted a no deal Brexit so that a Labour Government could implement a socialist revolution (I wish Mogg would be honest and say that he wants a no deal so we can turn into a completely unregulated free market capitalist state); and then from Michael Heseltine who simply wants to reverse the result of the referendum.

 

[ELLERS]

Dexit
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...raffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

 

[Stroller]

The Canada deal solves the Irish border issue. There will be a hard border there, like there will be between the rest of the UK and the EU. It’s bad news for the people of Ireland, who didn’t vote for this, but for the Northern Irish that’s the price of staying in the precious Union. Perhaps it will encourage them all to think about their long term future. As we apparently live in a time when policy is made by a difference of 1.2m votes in a referendum, I fail to see why the future of 60 plus million people is held hostage to the needs of the 6 million inhabitants of Ireland. We work on simple majority wins now, it seems.

Admittedly we would probably have to crash out with a no deal Brexit before we could get to a trade deal, the impact on everyone would force some expedited negotiations, and even a **** deal will seem good compared to nothing, especially in Ireland.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of Corbyn in placing pre conditions on discussions with May, while he’s happy to hobnob with terrorists on whom he places no pre conditions at all. I entirely agree that May is a stupid, stubborn PM, putting her and an idiot like Corbyn in a room together isn’t going to solve anything.

There was a refreshing blast of honest fresh air on the wireless this morning, first from Denis Skinner who said he wanted a no deal Brexit so that a Labour Government could implement a socialist revolution (I wish Mogg would be honest and say that he wants a no deal so we can turn into a completely unregulated free market capitalist state); and then from Michael Heseltine who simply wants to reverse the result of the referendum.

So Canada is a non-starter, then.

Yes, I can see some hypocrisy in Corbyn's position, and I do think that he should meet with May, but expect zero to come from it, as she is incapable of listening to anyone, least of all Corbyn. I'm genuinely concerned that her reckless stubbornness will lead to a calamitous conclusion on 29th March, and cling to the hope that Parliament can take charge somehow to prevent it. It's really not clear how this might happen, though. Hopefully Dominic Grieve is on the case and we will know more on Monday when May has to bring an amendable motion to the House on her Plan B, or rather Plan A re-visited.

 

[sb_73]

So Canada is a non-starter, then.

Yes, I can see some hypocrisy in Corbyn's position, and I do think that he should meet with May, but expect zero to come from it, as she is incapable of listening to anyone, least of all Corbyn. I'm genuinely concerned that her reckless stubbornness will lead to a calamitous conclusion on 29th March, and cling to the hope that Parliament can take charge somehow to prevent it. It's really not clear how this might happen, though. Hopefully Dominic Grieve is on the case and we will know more on Monday when May has to bring an amendable motion to the House on her Plan B, or rather Plan A re-visited.

Why is Canada (which is just short hand for a bespoke trade deal which does not include membership of the Customs Union or Single Market) a non starter? We just need the balls to say ‘regretably there will be a hard border in Ireland. We can either do this with no agreements in place or with a trade agreement’. The only alternative is staying in the Customs Union, which is not a real Brexit. Although I suspect it is the most likely outcome, after an extension of Article 50, followed by years more bickering in the UK.

I’m amazed to say it, but May is right not to take No Deal off the table. It’s the only card she has left, though it is the nuclear mutually assured destruction card that no one wants to play.

Don’t get me wrong, the only good outcome for me is staying in with a renewed commitment to full and enthusiastic participation in EU reform. But that’s not going to happen, so I tend not to think about it much.

 

[Stroller]

Why is Canada (which is just short hand for a bespoke trade deal which does not include membership of the Customs Union or Single Market) a non starter? We just need the balls to say ‘regretably there will be a hard border in Ireland. We can either do this with no agreements in place or with a trade agreement’. The only alternative is staying in the Customs Union, which is not a real Brexit. Although I suspect it is the most likely outcome, after an extension of Article 50, followed by years more bickering in the UK.

I’m amazed to say it, but May is right not to take No Deal off the table. It’s the only card she has left, though it is the nuclear mutually assured destruction card that no one wants to play.

Don’t get me wrong, the only good outcome for me is staying in with a renewed commitment to full and enthusiastic participation in EU reform. But that’s not going to happen, so I tend not to think about it much.

The UK Parliament won't accept a hard border in Ireland, and the EU (on behalf of the Republic of Ireland) won't accept it either. I don't see how, therefore, Canada can be considered. I too think that we will wind up staying in the Customs Union, but the route to that outcome is unclear. If May were to offer that to Parliament on Monday, I believe it would get a majority. She won't though, because she is incapable of compromise.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The UK Parliament won't accept a hard border in Ireland, and the EU (on behalf of the Republic of Ireland) won't accept it either. I don't see how, therefore, Canada can be considered. I too think that we will wind up staying in the Customs Union, but the route to that outcome is unclear. If May were to offer that to Parliament on Monday, I believe it would get a majority. She won't though, because she is incapable of compromise.

What about Canada ++=%€$¥•?

 

[bobmid]

What about Canada ++=%€$¥•?

That could work

 

[ELLERS]

The UK Parliament won't accept a hard border in Ireland, and the EU (on behalf of the Republic of Ireland) won't accept it either. I don't see how, therefore, Canada can be considered. I too think that we will wind up staying in the Customs Union, but the route to that outcome is unclear. If May were to offer that to Parliament on Monday, I believe it would get a majority. She won't though, because she is incapable of compromise.

I heard Leo Ardvark saying he would be prepared to put up border checks in a no deal situation. I can't see us staying in a Customs Union as that is not Brexit. People won't accept it. It will kill the Tories. We might as well stay in?
The best thing was a simple free trade deal and drop the backstop. A Canada ++++++

 

[ELLERS]

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[Stroller]

So May will take the maximum permitted time before whatever fudge she comes up with on Monday can be voted on, the Monday deadline having been imposed upon her by Parliament to stop her running the clock down.

I'm reminded of a live game I was watching on TV years ago between Southampton and some other team. It was at the Dell, so the crowd were close to the pitch, and they had a microphone stand on the half-way line. Southampton's opposition, who were leading at the time, got a throw-in right by the mic stand, and one of their players walked over very slowly to take the throw. Someone in the crowd could be heard on TV, clear as a bell, saying 'Take your time mate, no rush, we've got all day - YOU ****!!!'

 

[kiwiqpr]

The UK Parliament won't accept a hard border in Ireland, and the EU (on behalf of the Republic of Ireland) won't accept it either. I don't see how, therefore, Canada can be considered. I too think that we will wind up staying in the Customs Union, but the route to that outcome is unclear. If May were to offer that to Parliament on Monday, I believe it would get a majority. She won't though, because she is incapable of compromise.

if the uk dosent want a hard border
and the eu dosent want a hard border
then dont have one
put it in calais where there will be one anyway
unless of course the eu is saying it dosent trust the irish

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Nice incident yesterday when Polly Mackenzie (Lib Dem ex advisor and journalist) was part of a round the table discussion and was getting heated about the ERG.

"If that group won't toe the line," says Polly with feeling, "then Theresa May should sack them off."

Cue polite coughing and a determination not to catch anyone else's eye.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The UK Parliament won't accept a hard border in Ireland, and the EU (on behalf of the Republic of Ireland) won't accept it either. I don't see how, therefore, Canada can be considered. I too think that we will wind up staying in the Customs Union, but the route to that outcome is unclear. If May were to offer that to Parliament on Monday, I believe it would get a majority. She won't though, because she is incapable of compromise.

The UK will not put a hard border there. It's Ireland that will have to, being part of the EU. But I'm convinced there are technological solutions with the odd spot check, rather than Checkpoint Charlie at the Berlin Wall.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

So May will take the maximum permitted time before whatever fudge she comes up with on Monday can be voted on, the Monday deadline having been imposed upon her by Parliament to stop her running the clock down.

I'm reminded of a live game I was watching on TV years ago between Southampton and some other team. It was at the Dell, so the crowd were close to the pitch, and they had a microphone stand on the half-way line. Southampton's opposition, who were leading at the time, got a throw-in right by the mic stand, and one of their players walked over very slowly to take the throw. Someone in the crowd could be heard on TV, clear as a bell, saying 'Take your time mate, no rush, we've got all day - YOU ****!!!'

That reminds me of a match at LR in the 70's against Coventry. The Coventry crowd started to sing Stanley's name -

Stanley, Stanley, Stanley Bowles, Stanley Bowles, Stanley Bowles,

Stanley, Stanley, Stanley Bowles, Stanley Stanley Bowles...Ohhhhh...

At this stage, I was crediting the Coventry fans with great sportsmanship. Then the chant continued....

ohhhhhh...****wankwankwankwankwankwank ****wankwank ****wankwank ****wankwankwankwankwank **** **** **** **** ****...

 

[ELLERS]

good old Bill Cash just made that smooth talking Chukka look like a little boy on Sky.
Chukka started with a few jibes at Bill saying "he watched him as a kid and Bill hasn't changed" and boosting " I am a lawyer and Bill knows that". For Bill to give him a lesson in politics.
Funnily during a fab debate between the two a Breaking News item came in regarding 'Comedy Corbyn' saying No Labour MP is to discuss stuff with the Tories until May takes 'No deal' off the table.
Chukka started stuttering and looked very sheepish. Even that awful Kay Burley said you don't look right.
Then Bill finished him off with the facts about the leave date and said "You should know that Chukka, being a Lawyer" . Chukka stayed quiet.

 

[ELLERS]

Oh dear Labour MP's (some senior) are defying Comedy Corbyn and are engaging in discussions....Proper leader!
Attention off May and on him now.
He really is stupid.