Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Staines R's]

Ah I know that - I hardly had Dennis Skinner or Austin Mitchell down as right wingers!

 

[swanseaandproud]

What does leaving the EU give us that will make this country great again.?????? MPs dont seem to know not even the right wing.....But everyone knows the Benefits of staying in the EU......

 

[kiwiqpr]

Daniel Hannan‏Verified account@DanielJHannan 15h15 hours ago
Unemployment has fallen yet again, down by another 65,000 between April and June. It turns out that, if you cut corporation tax, businesses hire more people. Who knew?

 

[DT’s Socks]

Sadly, there lies the problem, our politicians are so bloody incompetent and pursuing their own agendas they have totally f*cked up and complicated what should have been a straightforward process. This incompetence has emboldened the EU to make ever more ridiculous demands of our exit to the point of us being tied to them without the membership benefits.

You, like many, are so pro EU you exaggerate everything to cheerlead. The truth is somewhere between the two sides and that is why it is so divisive. The bottom line is there was a vote, someone won and ever since the losers just can't accept it. Just trying to label those they don't agree with as racists, thickos etc shows why this will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

Donald Trump may be a complete arsehole as a person but I guarantee if he'd been negotiating Brexit he'd have triggered Article 50 the day after the vote and we'd be out by now on better terms than we'll ever get...

Trump has nothing to do with anything
I fully accept the result so let’s make that clear please it’s 52/48 a close split imo
That’s the point the close split
It’s not a football score with three points st stake
My point is there is absolutely no plan and no idea what to do after Brexit
Myself I have options but what I care about is the future
Calling the EU names seems the total sum of a Brexiteer whereas the complexity of the task of leaving has generated real impacting problems

A no deal is just plain selfish stupidity and will cost billions and then you are guessing what to do next ... plus you then have the face of U.K. politics to deal with. Anyone have faith in that?

Oh then of course you have nearly half of the population against the decision

So forward we go

 

[DT’s Socks]

We can’t even get our own politics in order
All we have now is theories

 

[TheBigDipper]

Daniel Hannan‏Verified account@DanielJHannan 15h15 hours ago
Unemployment has fallen yet again, down by another 65,000 between April and June. It turns out that, if you cut corporation tax, businesses hire more people. Who knew?

This is Hannans words, not yours, Kiwi, yes?

There's no direct, demonstrable connection between reducing tax for businesses (so they contribute less to the public purse from their profits) and a reduction in unemployment. He supports the first and has grabbed the second as glib justification, but there's no proof. What would be more useful would be a report showing that the cuts in tax permitted business owners to invest more in capital equipment and staff training, so the businesses became more efficient and productive. That's what the country needs if we're going to improve our situation.

However, it's great that more people have work if they're real, sustainable jobs with futures and decent wages.

It's a shame that many of them will probably be zero-hours jobs which means the people will still be needing benefits (from that reduced taxable income) to top up their wages so they can afford to live - because their income is at the legal minumum and their hours are unpredictable.

(Irony alert) I look forward to the day where all business owners wear stove pipe hats and have mandatory belching chimneys on top of their workplaces. The workforce will be poor, but grateful for scraps - as the 1% of decent owners are used as publicity vehicles to hide the fact that 99% are exploiting their workers as much as they can - saying "We're not breaking the law" in a pious voice as they go to church on a Sunday to demonstrate their respectability.

 

[sb_73]

This is Hannans words, not yours, Kiwi, yes?

There's no direct, demonstrable connection between reducing tax for businesses (so they contribute less to the public purse from their profits) and a reduction in unemployment. He supports the first and has grabbed the second as glib justification, but there's no proof. What would be more useful would be a report showing that the cuts in tax permitted business owners to invest more in capital equipment and staff training, so the businesses became more efficient and productive. That's what the country needs if we're going to improve our situation.

However, it's great that more people have work if they're real, sustainable jobs with futures and decent wages.

It's a shame that many of them will probably be zero-hours jobs which means the people will still be needing benefits (from that reduced taxable income) to top up their wages so they can afford to live - because their income is at the legal minumum and their hours are unpredictable.

(Irony alert) I look forward to the day where all business owners wear stove pipe hats and have mandatory belching chimneys on top of their workplaces. The workforce will be poor, but grateful for scraps - as the 1% of decent owners are used as publicity vehicles to hide the fact that 99% are exploiting their workers as much as they can - saying "We're not breaking the law" in a pious voice as they go to church on a Sunday to demonstrate their respectability.

Meanwhile the Secretary of State for Transport, The Right Honourable Chris Grayling MP, mounts a powerful argument for railway workers pay rises to be pegged to CPI rather than the higher RPI. He points out that public sector workers pay rises use CPI.

The relevant unions note that they already have pay agreements with the train companies, based on RPI. And also THAT THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR BECAUSE OF RAIL PRIVITISATION. Which they opposed.This Grayling twat is the living, breathing archetype of sub standard moronic **** headed politicians.

Meanwhile average CEO renumeration has risen by 11%, six times higher than their employees. They get 170 times the amount that an average employee gets. And 10 times more than Claude Juncker. You get what you pay for.

Wonder what Chris Grayling thinks about that.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Selective criticism of one man to me doesn’t mean the entire EU
Pick a English MP to knock it’s a easy game

Selmayr is, through patronage from Junckers, the most influential man in the EU bureaucratic system

 

[BobbyD]

Meanwhile the Secretary of State for Transport, The Right Honourable Chris Grayling MP, mounts a powerful argument for railway workers pay rises to be pegged to CPI rather than the higher RPI. He points out that public sector workers pay rises use CPI.

The relevant unions note that they already have pay agreements with the train companies, based on RPI. And also THAT THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR BECAUSE OF RAIL PRIVITISATION. Which they opposed.This Grayling twat is the living, breathing archetype of sub standard moronic **** headed politicians.

Meanwhile average CEO renumeration has risen by 11%, six times higher than their employees. They get 170 times the amount that an average employee gets. And 10 times more than Claude Juncker. You get what you pay for.

Wonder what Chris Grayling thinks about that.

just read the full story on this and although it wouldn't be fair on railway workers pay, he's trying to lower the rail fares by changing that to CPI rather than RPI.

Personally think he should just put railfare increases onto RPI irrespective of what happens to the workers.

 

[sb_73]

just read the full story on this and although it wouldn't be fair on railway workers pay, he's trying to lower the rail fares by changing that to CPI rather than RPI.

Personally think he should just put railfare increases onto RPI irrespective of what happens to the workers.

The bit that bitterly amuses me is the attempt to control a bit of the private sector, from a party which made it a bit of the private sector and which has an ideology of the private sector/market knows best.

I’m with Mark Carney I don’t get why we have two separate measures of inflation. Just get rid of RPI for everything.

 

[BobbyD]

The bit that bitterly amuses me is the attempt to control a bit of the private sector, from a party which made it a bit of the private sector and which has an ideology of the private sector/market knows best.

I’m with Mark Carney I don’t get why we have two separate measures of inflation. Just get rid of RPI for everything.

I understand Railway is officially under private sector with millions being siphoned off to shareholders, but it's one of those private but really part public services in that they receive a huge amount of public subsidy and railway companies cannot set what fares so i do understand why grayling has stuck his oar in.

 

[sb_73]

I understand Railway is officially under private sector with millions being siphoned off to shareholders, but it's one of those private but really part public services in that they receive a huge amount of public subsidy and railway companies cannot set what fares so i do understand why grayling has stuck his oar in.

**** it, I hate being confronted with facts.

What do you make of the CEO pay stuff (not a deflection tactic, Grayling obviously does have the job of trying to sort out the railways, it was the sound of his voice on the radio what set me off guv)?

 

[BobbyD]

**** it, I hate being confronted with facts.

What do you make of the CEO pay stuff (not a deflection tactic, Grayling obviously does have the job of trying to sort out the railways, it was the sound of his voice on the radio what set me off guv)?

Dunno, i have become more against big corporations as i have gotten older.

Funnily enough when i was younger i was much more right wing (typically, young people are left wingers) where i thought people worked their way up to their positions and deserved their pay.

Having experienced 10 years in finance and seen how CEOs typically go and save a company (go in, make everyone redundant, reduce costs and maybe head the company in a new direction) i think they are well overpaid and the obscene money they get for taking risks at time.

Obviously it's a bit tongue in cheek, i don't actually know what a CEO does, have never experienced it so i may be being awfully unfair. Also there are plenty of "well run" organisations (i say this because i guess they are making profits) and not that many fred goodwins.

I think remuneration is too high, however, this is democracy for you and there's nothing to prevent this as a common person. All these companies are pretty much owned by other rich people/institutions/hedge funds who will all be scratching each others backs. Life is too short to be complaining/envious about it but it is interesting to read up on

 

[DT’s Socks]

Selmayr is, through patronage from Junckers, the most influential man in the EU bureaucratic system

Yes best bloke for the job
Names faces the EU runs smoothly and will continue to do so
The Anglo Saxon Brexiteer imo lives in the past when the U.K. was a major force but we sold out imo

I much prefer the EU to run things as I have zero faith in our politics

EU countries lead the way imo on
Transport. Health and social care Schools
Roads Logistics Energy Manufacturing plus much much more

Time to learn a bit imo

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Yes best bloke for the job
Names faces the EU runs smoothly and will continue to do so
The Anglo Saxon Brexiteer imo lives in the past when the U.K. was a major force but we sold out imo

I much prefer the EU to run things as I have zero faith in our politics

EU countries lead the way imo on
Transport. Health and social care Schools
Roads Logistics Energy Manufacturing plus much much more

Time to learn a bit imo

Which EU countries lead the way? Greece, Italy, Spain - huge youth unemployment and basket case economies. France had big economic problems under Hollande. How long will the Macron bounce last? Parts of Sweden are alight due to immigrant drug gangs. Liberal Denmark has felt the need to ban the Burka. Even Germany is hardly thriving now, and faces big threats from the AfD.

But look, the UK has always been a brake on EU progress. We've held it back from the direction that Brussels wants it to go, namely full integration. As a Francophile, I would have thought you'd be delighted that the UK was coming out, and the negativity and reservations removed. Why try and keep in a country that doesn't want to be there?

 

[sb_73]

Dunno, i have become more against big corporations as i have gotten older.

Funnily enough when i was younger i was much more right wing (typically, young people are left wingers) where i thought people worked their way up to their positions and deserved their pay.

Having experienced 10 years in finance and seen how CEOs typically go and save a company (go in, make everyone redundant, reduce costs and maybe head the company in a new direction) i think they are well overpaid and the obscene money they get for taking risks at time.

Obviously it's a bit tongue in cheek, i don't actually know what a CEO does, have never experienced it so i may be being awfully unfair. Also there are plenty of "well run" organisations (i say this because i guess they are making profits) and not that many fred goodwins.

I think remuneration is too high, however, this is democracy for you and there's nothing to prevent this as a common person. All these companies are pretty much owned by other rich people/institutions/hedge funds who will all be scratching each others backs. Life is too short to be complaining/envious about it but it is interesting to read up on

It’s a tricky one. I have no problem people being paid stupid amounts of money that no level of performance or responsibility could justify. And frankly if I’m offered a stupid amount of money to do something I’m not going to turn it down, unless the job is truly disgusting or immoral. It’s the differential between what they earn and what people lower down the chain get which is increasingly stark. If you are on £3m a year, your company is making money and a chunk of your staff are on minimum wage and running up debt that’s not right.

There are all sorts of figures out there for how big the gap is between CEO and average (not lowest) worker, anything from 170:1 to over 350:1. In 1980 it was 45:1 and in 1950 20:1. So bizarrely in times when there was much more stratification by social class there was considerably more financial equality. This is not a good trend, and we can’t rely on shareholders to put it right. Ultimately bad for all of us.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Which EU countries lead the way? Greece, Italy, Spain - huge youth unemployment and basket case economies. France had big economic problems under Hollande. How long will the Macron bounce last? Parts of Sweden are alight due to immigrant drug gangs. Liberal Denmark has felt the need to ban the Burka. Even Germany is hardly thriving now, and faces big threats from the AfD.

But look, the UK has always been a brake on EU progress. We've held it back from the direction that Brussels wants it to go, namely full integration. As a Francophile, I would have thought you'd be delighted that the UK was coming out, and the negativity and reservations removed. Why try and keep in a country that doesn't want to be there?

I live in France but love my country as it has helped me to achieve what I have
My anger has its source in the sad way we have become especially in the south
I have an out but my personal circumstances are of my design. I do not agree with your cherry picking their are problems worldwide
I admit I have a lot of negativity about the U.K. but feel I am certainly qualified to submit commentary between the system of the EU as my life spans them both
I won’t return to the U.K. until very late Sep because I choose to do so

I also do not believe anyone on here really knows what the EU wants to do

Brexit wasn’t contested on any of that it was immigration primarily and a lot of spin and a protest vote

Give me some factual plans for after Brexit for next year ... I rest my case again and state how will it tackle the 48% who voted remain ? I am certainly not accepting to listen or act to a Brexiteer as they have damaged our future beyond repair

 

[DT’s Socks]

This is a very small forum and yet it reflects the divide perfectly

I would love to see a new poll on here in October not that it will change anything

Currently I truly believe Brexiteers would be well beaten on the idea of a final vote 70/30

 

[Staines R's]

This is a very small forum and yet it reflects the divide perfectly

I would love to see a new poll on here in October not that it will change anything

Currently I truly believe Brexiteers would be well beaten on the idea of a final vote 70/30

And then we could all argue/cry/moan about the result for another year and then do it all over again

 

[kiwiqpr]

This is Hannans words, not yours, Kiwi, yes?

There's no direct, demonstrable connection between reducing tax for businesses (so they contribute less to the public purse from their profits) and a reduction in unemployment. He supports the first and has grabbed the second as glib justification, but there's no proof. What would be more useful would be a report showing that the cuts in tax permitted business owners to invest more in capital equipment and staff training, so the businesses became more efficient and productive. That's what the country needs if we're going to improve our situation.

However, it's great that more people have work if they're real, sustainable jobs with futures and decent wages.

It's a shame that many of them will probably be zero-hours jobs which means the people will still be needing benefits (from that reduced taxable income) to top up their wages so they can afford to live - because their income is at the legal minumum and their hours are unpredictable.

(Irony alert) I look forward to the day where all business owners wear stove pipe hats and have mandatory belching chimneys on top of their workplaces. The workforce will be poor, but grateful for scraps - as the 1% of decent owners are used as publicity vehicles to hide the fact that 99% are exploiting their workers as much as they can - saying "We're not breaking the law" in a pious voice as they go to church on a Sunday to demonstrate their respectability.

why were zero hours contracts bought in
whats the point of them
is there any benefit to any of the workers on them
would it be hard to get rid of them