Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
DT’s Socks said:
I expect Brexiteers to come out and say how wonderful our politicans are
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Sadly, there lies the problem, our politicians are so bloody incompetent and pursuing their own agendas they have totally f*cked up and complicated what should have been a straightforward process. This incompetence has emboldened the EU to make ever more ridiculous demands of our exit to the point of us being tied to them without the membership benefits.

You, like many, are so pro EU you exaggerate everything to cheerlead. The truth is somewhere between the two sides and that is why it is so divisive. The bottom line is there was a vote, someone won and ever since the losers just can't accept it. Just trying to label those they don't agree with as racists, thickos etc shows why this will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

Donald Trump may be a complete arsehole as a person but I guarantee if he'd been negotiating Brexit he'd have triggered Article 50 the day after the vote and we'd be out by now on better terms than we'll ever get...
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
Which CEO's behave like that and are not sacked? They have to make a good profit and are answerable to shareholders. Junckers is unaccountable and has a massive army of bureaucrats making decisions and doing the work.
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If a CEO picks his next level down well, and they do the same, they shouldn’t have much to do. This bloke was around when things were flying, his only job was not to **** it up by fiddling with it. The next chap in had much harder business conditions, took some mad bets on dodgy science, had to make big cuts to the organisation twice.....and still survived to retire at the time of his choice. He was a good bloke.

Juncker is accountable to the Council of Ministers ie the elected leaders of the 27/8. But let’s not get back in to this crap, I will concede he is a disaster and the Council have managed him very poorly.
 
GoldhawkRoad said:
Which CEO's behave like that and are not sacked? They have to make a good profit and are answerable to shareholders. Junckers is unaccountable and has a massive army of bureaucrats making decisions and doing the work.
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So are you telling me our failure to get a Brexit deal isn't down to juncker but his army of bureaucrats who are making decisions?
 
sb_73 said:
If a CEO picks his next level down well, and they do the same, they shouldn’t have much to do. This bloke was around when things were flying, his only job was not to **** it up by fiddling with it. The next chap in had much harder business conditions, took some mad bets on dodgy science, had to make big cuts to the organisation twice.....and still survived to retire at the time of his choice.

Juncker is accountable to the Council of Ministers ie the elected leaders of the 27/8. But let’s not get back in to this crap, I will concede he is a disaster and the Council have managed him very poorly.
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I think we agree. Many say that Selmayr is the real power now. Grandson of a senior Nazi and utterly ruthless, he's not called The Beast for nothing
 
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BobbyD said:
So are you telling me our failure to get a Brexit deal isn't down to juncker but his army of bureaucrats who are making decisions?
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I'm referring to Stan's original post and I'm saying that Juncker is an old soak who doesn't justify his salary and whose responsibilities, conduct and performance cannot be compared to CEO's of the top 100 public companies
 
GoldhawkRoad said:
I think we agree. Many say that Selmayr is the real power now. Grandson of a senior Nazi and utterly ruthless, he's not called The Beast for nothing
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From everything I have seen and read Selmayr is a complete ****, but the Nazi link is irrelevant and beneath you, unless there is evidence that he is a Nazi. Keep it clean. Pretty sure that if you looked into my family history there would be a few horse thieves and pickpockets in there. No Tory voters though.
 
sb_73 said:
From everything I have seen and read Selmayr is a complete ****, but the Nazi link is irrelevant and beneath you, unless there is evidence that he is a Nazi. Keep it clean. Pretty sure that if you looked into my family history there would be a few horse thieves and pickpockets in there. No Tory voters though.
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It's a fact. How can a fact be dirty? He's a public servant annd heritage is interesting. Are you saying that if Nigel Farage's grandpa was a Nazi, it would be out of bounds to discuss it?
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
It's a fact. How can a fact be dirty? He's a public servant annd heritage is interesting. Are you saying that if Nigel Farage's grandpa was a Nazi, it would be out of bounds to discuss it?
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Not out of bounds but it would be a cheapshot. (Which the media love)

GoldhawkRoad said:
I'm referring to Stan's original post and I'm saying that Juncker is an old soak who doesn't justify his salary and whose responsibilities, conduct and performance cannot be compared to CEO's of the top 100 public companies
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Still doesn't matter how **** a CEO is. They still reap their millions (see every failed company there was).
 
The UK and it's workers will be Financially better off IN the EU, That much is obvious as admitted by Dimwit Farage and Dopey Boris and Gove who only want to leave before march next year so they dont have to pay billions in back taxes from offshore accounts that the Tories remarkably introduced the white paper that gave parliament a vote to end millionaires putting billions in foreign banks not to pay taxes on it........The biggest offender is Rees-Mogg who has a vast amount of money scattered everywhere including Russia of all places.......Well done to those who make a vast sum of money but dont rip off this country especially if you live in the UK and reap the benefits of being a well rewarded MP....Pay your Taxes like the rest of us have to do.....Just look at the damage this lot have done already and what they are still doing and it is for their own benefit and greed, The rest of us gain nothing, zero, zilch but we are the ones losing thousands of jobs and have to put up with continuing price rises on everything. Your annual holidays abroad are set to rise an average of £200 per person says the airlines and you will have to apply for a visa and should you have any sort of a criminal record then you most likely be refused......There is so much to lose with no gains and there are still idiots willing to listen and be conned by the right wing........If they win with a no deal then we will be dead and buried...
 
BobbyD said:
Not out of bounds but it would be a cheapshot. (Which the media love)



Still doesn't matter how **** a CEO is. They still reap their millions (see every failed company there was).
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Not a cheapshot if Selmayr is so without scruples that he starts behaving with Nazi like mentality. I'm sure if he worked behind the counter at a cancer cure charity, the issue would not arise. His own people call him The Beast.

In the past, there has been the occasional case where a Board rewarded a CEO for failure. Institutional shareholders are hot on that now. It's now "perform or you're out on your ear"
 
GoldhawkRoad said:
It's a fact. How can a fact be dirty? He's a public servant annd heritage is interesting. Are you saying that if Nigel Farage's grandpa was a Nazi, it would be out of bounds to discuss it?
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It would be of general interest, but irrelevant in judging the character of of the grandson unless there was some proven link. Winston Churchill’s dad was (probably) syphilitic, do we judge Churchill on that? Surprised you are fighting on this one Goldie, let’s leave it, no joy to be had here.
 
sb_73 said:
It would be of general interest, but irrelevant in judging the character of of the grandson unless there was some proven link. Winston Churchill’s dad was (probably) syphilitic, do we judge Churchill on that? Surprised you are fighting on this one Goldie, let’s leave it, no joy to be had here.
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If Churchill was found to going out at night procuring prostitutes, the link with Randolph would be made, sure it would.
 
TheBigDipper said:
I'm hearing the same narrative from several sources at the moment. It's this...

Mrs May will get the chance to kick the can down the road a bit longer, and we'll not leave in 2019 because we aren't ready and there won't be a deal in place. It's generally accepted that No Deal would cause all sides some damage in the short to medium term - although far more damage to the UK than any other individual EU27 country. The EU27 will grant us an extension to Article 50 so we can all take more time to work something out that works better. Mrs May will be hoping to retire before the next general election so she doesn't take the can for the failure to leave in a timely fashion or leave on better terms. Equally, she won't take the blame for putting the austerity-tired country into a self-induced heavy recession. The whole sorry mess will get blamed on Cameron.

I've no idea if this has any legs on it at all. What I do know is that a couple of people I've been debating Brexit with in another place (of all things, a music forum) have always been Leavers with decent reasons for leaving and the ability to debate without being insulting and back up their position with facts that they say gave them their point of view.

Now, they're hoping we do not leave - even predicting it - and have decided this narrative rings true for them. Why? They haven't changed their minds about preferring to be out of the EU rather than in. It's more that if the EU is the illness, they now believe the cure to be worse for us, the patient, in todays climate.

They just don't have any confidence in our current set of politicians (on all sides of the Brexit debate and in general) to be able to do a decent enough job to give the country a fighting chance of making a success of it. They think we should stay in the short term and take our time about leaving in the longer term. Some others then think that means we'll never leave.

Don't have a go at the messenger (me). I'm just relaying this because I'm interested to know if anyone else is hearing this and what they think. On both sides.
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I don't think there will be an extension to Article 50 - what's more likely is we will agree the Implementation Period and sign up to even more convergence to cover what we are not ready for in March 2019. Neither party would want to extend Art 50 as they've both ruled it out before.

But, rather than shooting the messenger, I'm agreeing all be it that they'll use a different mechanism.
 
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