The other side

[Hoddle is a god]

Personally, I don't think it is that simple. There's more to being a WUM than swearing, or using insulting language. Some, like the aforementioned Michigan, are just a damn persistent nuisance - a bit like a tooth ache. The only way to get rid of the pain, is to extract it.

Yes, I accept all of that. However, what I am talking about is a situation where the so-called wum is not, in fact, a wum (or, if he is winding other fans up, it is due to their own over-sensitivity), and is engaging in proper, sensible, reasoned debate, which the majority of the rival fans appreciate, and it is only a small number of idiots (those who will shout "wum" at any rival poster who challenges the partisan view) who take needless and unjustified offence, calling for a banning, which the friendly so-called moderator obliges them with.

In other words, I am talking about a case where there is absolutely no question that the poster should not be banned.

 

[NSIS]

Yes, I accept all of that. However, what I am talking about is a situation where the so-called wum is not, in fact, a wum (or, if he is winding other fans up, it is due to their own over-sensitivity), and is engaging in proper, sensible, reasoned debate, which the majority of the rival fans appreciate, and it is only a small number of idiots (those who will shout "wum" at any rival poster who challenges the partisan view) who take needless and unjustified offence, calling for a banning, which the friendly so-called moderator obliges them with.

In other words, I am talking about a case where there is absolutely no question that the poster should not be banned.

Yes, of course. I don't know what can be done, in this case. If the Goon moderators are so hyper sensitive to any criticism by members from other teams, then that just shows that Wenger's paranoia, and sense of entitlement, has fed through to some of the fans - who probably weren't too bright, in the first place.
In the case of Jayram, he's just a deluded arsehole. How a total dick like that got to be a moderator, is beyond me. I suppose the Lunatics must have taken over that particular asylum!

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Ja has become a bit of a joke. Roughly 10% of posts are 'relevant', the remaining 90% is made of wum, idiots or smiley fests

So it really is Just Another 606...

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I don't think Jayram is a moderator. If he is ever made a moderator, I will close down my account on this site, as it will be confirmed as the biggest joke on the planet.

No, it's rather that Jayram, and a couple of the other idiots on the AFC board seem to have the ear of one of the AFC so-called moderators; and despite the fact that the vast majority of AFC posters have openly stated that they are happy for me to post on their board, and have not seen fit to sink into a pit of petty name-calling and personal insults, I have been given a "friendly" warning by the mod because the handful of idiots find my informative, incisive and intelligent debate too much for them

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Jayram's not a moderator, NSIS.
Sorry if I gave you that impression.

 

[NSIS]

Jayram's not a moderator, NSIS.
Sorry if I gave you that impression.

So the Goons haven't gone completely mad, then?

 

[Hoddle is a god]

So the Goons haven't gone completely mad, then?

Mainly, they are quite reasonable, perhaps a little over-sensitive, but no where near as bad as the Scousers. It must be said, however, that they have two or three of the biggest idiots in cyberspace.

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

Why not adopt something along the lines of Yellow card- Red Card? Or Maybe, two yellows, and then a final Red - three strikes - you're out, sort of thing.
Unless of course it qualifies for a straight Red. There has to be a way of banning these idiots, IMO. If we didn't, we would still be being plagued by the Michigans of the world.

Hello Mr Spain

or should that be Pain in Spain - hope you don't mind, couldn't help myself.

The three-strike rule operates on many boards. Their membership though tends to be more a sedate kind. As is well known, the football fan can be a creature insanely driven by emotions. Actually the sports boards I have been on tend to feature such members. Something about the competitive spirit gone wrong perhaps...

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I tend to operate a little more informally.
If you act like a twat, then you get banned.
If you don't, then you're ok.

Dissent and disagreement are both encouraged, as long as you do it in a polite and non-disruptive manner.
If you don't agree with someone, then explain why you believe they are wrong.
Don't just call them a pillock, unless they're WUMing.
Even then, it's normally best to just ignore them and let the mods sort them out.

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

The trouble with that is that it would simple perpetuate the current system, where idiot mods issue "friendly" warnings to good posters merely for (as NowSufferingSpain puts it) merely having the temerity to stand up to idiots who have no intention other than to hijack a sensible debate, merely because one of the main participants in that debate happens to be a fan of an opposing team.

Which is why I believe mods have to be chosen carefully. In fact on my own board ( a watch forum ) I really wish we had appointed mods on a probationary basis. That would resolve the issue of mods going 'sour'. The problem with haywire mods is that should they hold a grudge, they could well move to another board or set up their own, taking their chums with them. Then you could be left with a lot less than you started with.

I think we've got to get away from this idea that boards are the proprietary domain of one set of fans. Too often one reads the pathetic complaint "what are you doing on our board?" when it's perfectly obvious to anyone with half a brain-cell that boards are split up into the respective teams to enable topical debate to be engage around those teams and not as barriers to opposing fans coming on and entering into debate.

The only way one can stop this pathetic call of "wum" against bona fide posters is to remove the sanction to ban posters. Or restrict any such bans to those who enter into cyber-bullying or who open use foul language and/or personal abuse against a fellow poster. There should be zero-tolerance towards that sort of behaviour; and mods who are found to not be enforcing such bans (eg because they are siding with mates of theirs) should be stripped of their powers and reduced to the ranks.

Nothing is perfect in this world as we all know. I think there has to be a set of rules and and anyone signing up to a board, signs up to accepting those terms. Then if they step out of line, they run the risk of whatever sanction is drawn up. Same applies to mods who do not know how to behave. Some of them are nothing more than rogue cops or overgrown school prefects.

I think there should be a massive review of mods right now, with many of them being stripped of their powers and reduced to the ranks, simply because they have proven time and time again that they are not fit to moderate their own toilet-business, let alone adult debate.

Couldn't happen soon enough. This of course is the responsibility of the owners of Not606. I can appreciate that the forum may have been set up in haste. Hopefully in time, some fine tuning can be done so it becomes a decent, civilised place for all to enjoy.


Cheerio 4 now pal

Rv100 and counting

 

[Hoddle is a god]

A good evening to your, Mr RvB

It's always a pleasure chatting to you.

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

I tend to operate a little more informally.
If you act like a twat, then you get banned.
If you don't, then you're ok.

Dissent and disagreement are both encouraged, as long as you do it in a polite and non-disruptive manner.
If you don't agree with someone, then explain why you believe they are wrong.
Don't just call them a pillock, unless they're WUMing.
Even then, it's normally best to just ignore them and let the mods sort them out.

Sounds pretty sensible and grown up to me

I'll bet they're not in the do's and don'ts here though or are they?

 

[PINKIE]

The other thing is that I was given a "friendly" warning for doing nothing other than entering into debate on the Gunners' board. I'm sorry, but by any standard that you care to apply that is an abuse of power, and that mod should have his powers stripped from him, as he is clearly not mature enough to be a moderator.

Cym is mature
He copied me in on the PM he sent you - and to be honest, I thought it was reasonable enough.
We had received lots of complaints about you from our members, so it would have be negligent not to respond.

If you look at the facts though HIAG, we've not deleted any of your comments, banned any of your articles or told you that you're not welcome on our board.
I think you need to respect the balance that mods need to strike between allowing the boards to flow and keeping their members happy.

In all honestly, you've been treated very fairly indeed.

 

[NSIS]

Hello Mr Spain

or should that be Pain in Spain - hope you don't mind, couldn't help myself.

The three-strike rule operates on many boards. Their membership though tends to be more a sedate kind. As is well known, the football fan can be a creature insanely driven by emotions. Actually the sports boards I have been on tend to feature such members. Something about the competitive spirit gone wrong perhaps...

Hello Mr Van Persil;
Most reasonable people don't mind a bit of banter. However, persistent, childish, or just downright insulting WUM's were the bane of the old 606, and are now, seemingly, the bane of ja606. We certainly don't want this site descending to the same level of infantile "wit" that pervades, over there.

P.s. how did you get the same name as my washing powder? Are you related??

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Cym is mature

I beg to differ, as I am entitled to. But I suppose you would consider, by my expressing that opinion, that I am a wum?

He copied me in on the PM he sent you - and to be honest, I thought it was reasonable enough.

How was it reasonable? He threatened to ban me without expressing any reason why a ban would be justified.

Sorry, but I think you meant to conclude that " he was UNreasonable

We had received lots of complaints about you from our members, so it would have be negligent not to respond.

How many complaints, and from whom?

What was the nature of those complaints?

Just because idiots such as Jayram (who should be banned from this site) complains about me does not mean (a) he is justified, or (b) that, even if he is justified, I should be banned.

Here, I am now making an open and official complaint to you about him and his continual insulting behaviour towards me and other posters. I want him banned. Please sort it out Will you do that?

I won't hold my breath.

If you look at the facts though HIAG, we've not deleted any of your comments, banned any of your articles or told you that you're not welcome on our board.

That's because, actually, I have done absolutely nothing to deserve a ban or a deletion of my posts. On one thread, most of your posters came down on my side against the two idiots who were stirring things up. Cym decided to side with the idiots and ignore the wishes of the many. That is far from mature or reasonable, would you not agree? I bet idiots like Jayram complain about any rival poster who appears to have free-reign with his opinions on your board, no matter how polite or how reasonably argued. Am I right?

As for my comments, not once did I abuse or attempt to bully a poster, unlike the idiots on your board.

The truth of the matter is that who ever complained about me (and I do not imagine, for one moment, that it is anyone other than those that would be considered by your reasonable and intelligent partisan posters as idiots) would complain about me what ever I wrote. And that is the crux of the problem.

I think you need to respect the balance that mods need to strike between allowing the boards to flow and keeping their members happy.

No I don't. I have merely to exercise the freedom to express my opinion without resorting to personal insults and cyber-bullying.

If you are genuinely intent on striking a balance, then it is for you to recognise that the behaviour of some of the posters on your board is utterly unacceptable, and to take the appropriate action; and that should include taking other mods to task who abuse their powers by threatening bans against the victims of abuse. If you don't have the courage to do that, then you shouldn't be a mod.

Your attitude appears to be "oh! a rival poster is being abused by one of our resident idiots! I know, let's solve this dilemma by banning the victim!"

I couldn't believe it when your mod wrote to me in the terms he did. When I saw his PM in my inbox, I expected to find an apology for being the victim of the dreadful abuse at the hands of the juvenile idiots on your board. To be threatened with being banned from your board was appalling! It amounts to yet more abuse!

If you cannot see that, then you have already shown your inability to exercise any judgement reasonably, and cannot hope to reach any proper balance. Indeed, the balance you have on your board is weighted in favour of the idiots, like Jayram and Sirtfire.

In all honestly, you've been treated very fairly indeed.

No, I have not!

Please list all the offending comments I made, openly, in a thread on this board, with explanations as to why they were offensive. I challenge you to do that, because I am confident that you (and the idiot posters on your board) have absolutely no case.

I, in turn, will make a list of all the vile and insulting comments made against me by your idiot posters.

We can, then, leave it to the general populace to decide whether or not (a) anything I have said is deserving of a ban, and (b) anything said by the two or three idiot partisan posters on your board is deserving of a ban.

How about it?

 

[goonercymraeg]

I beg to differ, as I am entitled to. But I suppose you would consider, by my expressing that opinion, that I am a wum?







How was it reasonable? He threatened to ban me without expressing any reason why a ban would be justified.

Sorry, but I think you meant to conclude that " he was UNreasonable





How many complaints, and from whom?

What was the nature of those complaints?

Just because idiots such as Jayram (who should be banned from this site) complains about me does not mean (a) he is justified, or (b) that, even if he is justified, I should be banned.

Here, I am now making an open and official complaint to you about him and his continual insulting behaviour towards me and other posters. I want him banned. Please sort it out Will you do that?

I won't hold my breath.






That's because, actually, I have done absolutely nothing to deserve a ban or a deletion of my posts. On one thread, most of your posters came down on my side against the two idiots who were stirring things up. Cym decided to side with the idiots and ignore the wishes of the many. That is far from mature or reasonable, would you not agree? I bet idiots like Jayram complain about any rival poster who appears to have free-reign with his opinions on your board, no matter how polite or how reasonably argued. Am I right?

As for my comments, not once did I abuse or attempt to bully a poster, unlike the idiots on your board.

The truth of the matter is that who ever complained about me (and I do not imagine, for one moment, that it is anyone other than those that would be considered by your reasonable and intelligent partisan posters as idiots) would complain about me what ever I wrote. And that is the crux of the problem.






No I don't. I have merely to exercise the freedom to express my opinion without resorting to personal insults and cyber-bullying.

If you are genuinely intent on striking a balance, then it is for you to recognise that the behaviour of some of the posters on your board is utterly unacceptable, and to take the appropriate action; and that should include taking other mods to task who abuse their powers by threatening bans against the victims of abuse. If you don't have the courage to do that, then you shouldn't be a mod.

Your attitude appears to be "oh! a rival poster is being abused by one of our resident idiots! I know, let's solve this dilemma by banning the victim!"

I couldn't believe it when your mod wrote to me in the terms he did. When I saw his PM in my inbox, I expected to find an apology for being the victim of the dreadful abuse at the hands of the juvenile idiots on your board. To be threatened with being banned from your board was appalling! It amounts to yet more abuse!

If you cannot see that, then you have already shown your inability to exercise any judgement reasonably, and cannot hope to reach any proper balance. Indeed, the balance you have on your board is weighted in favour of the idiots, like Jayram and Sirtfire.







No, I have not!

Please list all the offending comments I made, openly, in a thread on this board, with explanations as to why they were offensive. I challenge you to do that, because I am confident that you (and the idiot posters on your board) have absolutely no case.

I, in turn, will make a list of all the vile and insulting comments made against me by your idiot posters.

We can, then, leave it to the general populace to decide whether or not (a) anything I have said is deserving of a ban, and (b) anything said by the two or three idiot partisan posters on your board is deserving of a ban.

How about it?

I never once threatened to ban you so that is a bare faced lie on your part.In fact i told you that you were more than welcome to post on the Arsenal board.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I never once threatened to ban you so that is a bare faced lie on your part.In fact i told you that you were more than welcome to post on the Arsenal board.

Cym, the title of your PM was "wumming on the Arsenal board" and what you wrote was this (PM in its entirety):-



"You are starting to sail very close to the wind with your constant wumming on the Arsenal board.Numerous members have already asked for you to banned from the Arsenal board but up to now we have let it go.There is no problem with you posting on our board as long as you behave in the correct manner and do not post just to get a rise out of other members.
This is meant as a friendly warning as should be taken as such
Goonercymraeg(Arsenal board mod)"



The implication of your message is very clear: that if I continue to "wum" on your board I will be banned.

Yet, your thread does not state any of the following:-

1. who has complained

2. the nature of the complaint

3. what comments I am supposed to have made that had been deemed worthy of censure

4. what it was about my behaviour that needs correcting

In short, you have warned me that I will be banned if I do not mend my ways, but without specifying what it is I have done wrong. You have accused me of something, but have forgotten to specify the exact charge.

The problem I have with that is two-fold.

Firstly, as far as I am concerned, I have written nothing on your board that would be deserving of a ban or of deletion and, indeed, the fact that I haven't been banned or had any of my comments pulled, is proof of that fact. What we are left with is simply my being warned for nothing more than that some of your (unnamed) posters didn't like some of my comments. Well, here's a surprise, I don't like most of the comments they make, but that doesn't justify a ban, nor would I seek such a thing.

Secondly, your PM makes absolutely no reference to the vile personal insults and foul language I have had continually directed against me by the likes of Jayram and Sirtfire, or that you have written to them to inform them that should there be a repeat of such behaviour, against any poster, they will be banned. PISKIE talks about balance, but there is absolutely none displayed in your PM.

The sad truth of the matter, whether you or PISKIE have the courage to admit it or not, is that you will ban me simply because the likes of Jayram and his imbecilic friends will hound you enough with PMs until you do. It's the simplest option for you to take. What you should do, of course, if you truly believe that you are being fair and reasonable, is ban them from your board and let me, and every other decent poster, engage in the football debate that we sign up to this site to engage in.

 

[perrymanlegend]

PNP,King, Spurf this thread has turned into a rather nasty case of us v them.
Is there any way this particular piece of unpleasantness be moved somewhere else?

 

[Hoddle is a god]

One of the problems this site suffers is that no one seems to want to discuss the frequent abuse of power of certain mods. It's easy to sweep it under the carpet.

But it is important, because I know for a fact that many would-be posters are put off signing up here as a result of idiots having the power to censor reasonable debate, purely on the basis that they lack the intellectual ability to argue their way politely around critical comments.

 

[SpursDisciple]

HIAG- What was the offending thread - have you got a link so we can see for ourselves whether you were out of line?