Off Topic The Migrant Crisis

Many do chose to stay in other European countries , of course some don’t and pass through them on the way to the UK, it’s not like other European countries don’t have a similar problem, and in many cases a much bigger one than us.

 

Dads Army would spot with so many males .. well their economic migrants. Moral duty?

 

If you are a 'genuine' asylum seeker fleeing war or persecution with your family, you accept asylum in the first safe haven (as per United Nations protocols).

If you cross multiple borders with the sole unbreakable intention of reaching the UK, there must be another reason. So what do you think that reason is exactly?.

Me I believe that the mayor of Sangat knew almost 20 years ago and I believe most of the UK and probably the EU still know now.

The irony is the left would have the world believe that the UK is institutionally racist, unwelcoming and dangerous for asylum seekers, question 2 why would any asylum seeker want to settle here?.

As I said I lived in France for 16 years the only real assistance available is charity, there is very little or chance if any of appeal once an asylum seeker has broken French law, they are repatriated, without any legal recourse, Sarkozi and then Hollande repatriated tens of thousands of Romas because of ongoing problems that the Romas ignored and not only were they repatriated their vehicles and caravans were seized and crushed and they were sent back on planes.

Work it out?

 

If they were genuinely escaping war or persecution etc. surely they would claim asylum at the first safe haven border that they cross?

So why are so many driven to cross multiple borders to only want to enter the UK?, putting themselves in mortal danger?, there must be a reason?, over to you.

 

I'm not questioning the posts on AN9's thread - I just looked in and read it. As it's general discussion and nothing to do with football, there's a tendancy for others to join in and post in agreement with the general tenor of the debate.

The point I was making is there's a huge difference between having a moral duty and being isolationist. Mainland Europe doesn't want them, so why should we is the thrust of the debate.

In principle I totally agree but something needs to be sorted before we resort to gunboat diplomacy. These people are desperate and see reaching these Isles as the ultimate fulfillment of their aspirations. If that's a reflection of the esteem this country is held in or whether we are just seen as a "soft touch" is another matter.

I'd much prefer to talk about football but there you go - I commented on the thread subject and that's my problem.

 

Fair enough, but I have to correct one sentence "Mainland Europe doesn't want them, so why should we is the thrust of the debate". That is incorrect, the thrust of the debate is that the migrants risking their lives crossing not only the channel but multiple 'friendly' borders, do not want mainland Europe not the other way around and there was a reason nearly 20 years ago (that even a French mayor recognised) and those reasons still persist today fuelling their compulsive determination to only want to reach one country, safe haven from war and or persecution seems to be not part of the agenda.

 

Perhaps 1 or 2% are as you say above.

I totally disagree with the thrust of your comment.

98% of these migrants are Chancers.

 

The thing is to stop what's happening in their own countries that makes these people want to leave

The US, China and Russia basically run this planet - if they really wanted to stop for example the conflict in Syria - they would

However they all have their own self interest

Perhaps there should be a proper asylum system run by the UN where the number a country takes is based on its GDP

Oh - and much stiffer sentences for people smugglers

 

Whilst many of these prospective immigrants are as you say chancers, your percentage figures are ridiculous.

On the broader issue, the fact that they don't want mainland Europe has nothing to do with the fact that mainland Europe doesn't want them either.

For all their "liberal" principles which features heavily their constitution, the French populace is very much "Le Pen" leaning when it comes to immigration.

If they were able and allowed to, they'd arrange an armada of boats to ferry them across. They wouldn't even require the recent £54M bung to keep them there - they'd do it for nothing because they want rid and the Belgians and Dutch would give them a hand.

I don't want illegal immigrants in my country either but I suspect most other Europeans share that view. Because we are an island, there seems to be the belief that we should pull up the drawbridge. We are in far better position to do that rather than having land borders for them to flood across, but do you really think that is the answer?

 

Sometimes you are really quite sensible for a bluebird , only sometimes mind ..

 

... that's fair enough, sometimes is better than never.....

 

'These people are desperate and see reaching these Isles as the ultimate fulfillment of their aspirations'.

Ridiculous, gullible, naive .
Take your pick.

 

Not as ridiculous as your ridiculous and laughable percentages.

Exaggeration, emmotional claptrap, Xenophobia.

Take your pick.

 

The percentages are obviously ridiculous, but of course the fact that they don't want mainland Europe has everything to do with this issue of why they only want to come to the UK, they cannot be forced to stay in mainland Europe (apparently).

The comment about the French being 'Le Pen leaning' is ridiculous, if it were true Le Pen would have been in power many years ago, their issue is with how weak Hollande and Macron have been in their dealings with terrorists. Hollande cut the secret service, special forces, army and police to the bone (because he was a socialist twat) and that gave rise to the Bataclan massacre and the amount of people not only needlessly died but were barbaricly tortured by bored terrorists, waiting for him to take his head out of his arse and send in the special forces to dispatch them too their awaiting virgins and Macron is just a gutless chancer who has taken up an anti UK stance in a desperate bid to get reelected at the next election (an election I would wager will still not see Le Pen elected) Macron and his government have also tried to stop too much info entering the public domain about terror incidents in France.

 

Obviously if France is facilitating illegal passage to the uk that isn’t right, but equally neither is it right for us to throw a moat around the UK and pretend the problem doesn’t exist.

I don’t know enough about French politics to comment on your comments about that. Ultimately whether or not they are genuine refugees the whole of Europe need to work together to solve the problem.

 

I bow to your apparent knowledge of the French political system, but we're not debating that.

My comment about many of the French population leaning in the Le Pen direction on this subject is not ridiculous at all. It is a documented fact that pollsters have found a large anti-immigrant majority when asked the question. What is ridiculous is your suggestion that if they were, then they would have voted Le Pen in before now - now that is as ridiculous as Redprintt's percentages.

There are far more issues that decide the electorate's vote than immigrant admission. Granted it would be a factor, but nowhere near enough to overthrow the middle ground - Farage found that out over here.

Getting back to the subject rather than sniping at individuals on here, I hope Europe as a whole, and the world for that matter, finds a solution to this problem. Until one is found, there will be many more who will suffer with the status quo, and many more who will make large amounts of money through that suffering.

 

So simple question exactly what should France be doing with a large migrant population that does not want to be in France but does want to be in the UK, so fanatically so they are willing to risk life and limb in one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world? force them to stay? how would that work.

 

Exactly, we voted to leave the EU, and yet UKIP will never get elected. Elections are never about one subject.

 

Simple question, however not simple to resolve. However it can’t be right that we wipe our hands of the issue as migrants have to pass through other countries first. Europe as a whole has to find a way to deal with it.

 

Excuse me? two points here, firstly claiming that France is Le Pen leaning is about politics and you made that statement, that is why it is being debated and secondly the sniping with calling RP's percentages ridiculous (which they probably are).

I can assure you that your Le Pen comments could not be farther from the truth. France has a huge illegal immigrant problem because of their North African colonial past. They will publicly admit to having around 4mil illegal immigrants but the more likely figure is 12 to 16mil. They are largely kept in check by the knowledge that if they sufficiently piss off the French government enough (whatever it's political persuasion) they will round up thousands of them and fly them back from whence they came, no legal aid, no human rights lawyers, basically straight from their ghettos to waiting military aircraft.

The Front Nationale has it's original roots in Brittany, a region that is famously Breton first and French second. They actually started off as a party attempting to hold up the rights of immigrants, who were being denied their human rights especially in the workplace. I was friendly with the wife of the man who along with Papa Le Pen started the party off, but he was eventually sidelined by Le Pen but upon his death his wife was brought in because of her high profile name within the party and the region of Brittany, she eventually became mayor of Lorient but in her 2nd stint as mayor she stood as an independent because of the right wing views now being espoused by the Front Nationale and Le Pen. She is a fascinating woman who is also a lawyer and worked as a human rights lawyer around the world for the United Nations.

Brittany is certainly not supportive of Le Pen, in the last election a landslide for Macron, they won the smallish regions of Pay De Calais and Aisne both in the North, full stop. Basically despite being lumbered with ****ty presidents like forever (only Pompidou probably in the last 50 years has not faced prosecution after leaving office) they hate Le Pen and her politics and use her only to dispose of other party's in the first round of voting and then she is massacred.