The EU debate - Part III

[DMD]

What does that have to do with your previous statement?

What does any of this have to do with the initial point I made?

How many black police are involved in stop and searches?

There are plenty of black people and groups saying that issues raised by groups like black lives matter, which this falls in to, create far more victims than the things they complain about.

Just calling 'racist' doesn't address the issues.

 

[PowerSpurs]

People go to football matches and get searched when entering the ground. Do you demonstrate against that or see it as a reason to commit crime?

I restrict myself to discussion rather than demonstration usually but I do think its not a good idea to search people in this manner. It's a rather lazy response to others' criminal activity which is probably quite ineffective in preventing crime. When I went to matches in the sixties police used to escort away fans to and from the station. I think that was quite an effective way of selecting for travelling supporters to be violent as sensible ones would not wish to be subject to such an indignity.

 

[The Zlatan]

You're the ****ing pantomime here you racist ****wit..

Do us all a favour and go and peddle your **** elsewhere...

You disgust me!...

Zero substance. Sad!

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

What does any of this have to do with the initial point I made?

How many black police are involved in stop and searches?

There are plenty of black people and groups saying that issues raised by groups like black lives matter, which this falls in to, create far more victims than the things they complain about.

Just calling 'racist' doesn't address the issues.

Black Lives Matter actually had a point in the US, but it was hijacked by a small number of idiots and a larger group of opportunists.
The issues that they raised didn't create victims, though. You're just being an apologist for racists.
This is part of the rather disturbing alt-right stuff that you keep echoing.

A lot of people simply don't like being called out on their poor behaviour.
They cry about it and try to fling **** back the other way.
"No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet."

Trying to stop people from raising legitimate concerns and issues is not constructive.

 

[petersaxton]

I restrict myself to discussion rather than demonstration usually but I do think its not a good idea to search people in this manner. It's a rather lazy response to others' criminal activity which is probably quite ineffective in preventing crime. When I went to matches in the sixties police used to escort away fans to and from the station. I think that was quite an effective way of selecting for travelling supporters to be violent as sensible ones would not wish to be subject to such an indignity.

The level of violence from supporters when no attempt was made meant that the police had to be more proactive.
Now fans can mingle together - except for at West Ham - it's a lot better atmosphere.

 

[DMD]

Black Lives Matter actually had a point in the US, but it was hijacked by a small number of idiots and a larger group of opportunists.
The issues that they raised didn't create victims, though. You're just being an apologist for racists.
This is part of the rather disturbing alt-right stuff that you keep echoing.

A lot of people simply don't like being called out on their poor behaviour.
They cry about it and try to fling **** back the other way.
"No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet."

Trying to stop people from raising legitimate concerns and issues is not constructive.

Black lives matter are largely discredited, even by blacks, because they the fact that the bulk of black deaths are by other blacks, and it is that crime that the Police are trying to protect them from.

My claim was that calling racist adds nothing to a discussion. You offered stop and search as some sort of response, which suggest that you think 'racist' is an appropriate cry, yet you ignore my question on how many black police officers are involved in stop and search. To help you, I posted the view of black police officers, which seems to conflict with the racist claim.

You can claim it's flawed, but simply calling it racist misses a lot of the issue, and isn't constructive.

Calling racist, is as meaningless as you trying to call my position as being a racist apologist, when I'm arguing for more support in what would be largely black areas, but your focus would limit that.

 

[The Zlatan]

@ZLATAN was easy to slam dunk last night The fella is so full of hate, he overlooked glaring mistakes in basic maths, in his ferrel state. And then realising I'd caught him out didnt have the courage to admit his cock up, choosing instead to irrationally defend his bare-faced idiocy. I quite enjoyed putting him straight tbh

You should learn how to tag properly, and then once you've done that, perhaps you can respond to my post rather than just announcing a crushing victory over me...

Zlatan's just lifted the veil. What's different about what he's saying and a lot of the other stuff on here?
He's Nick Griffin to certain other people's Nigel Farage.

Walk around throwing Nazi salutes and calling yourself a white supremacist and everyone will dismiss you.
Put on a suit, say that you're on the side of the working man and the same rhetoric becomes more palatable.
That they're not even on the side of the working man makes it even worse, for me.

I wouldn't call it lifting the veil, I think once one person steps forward, the rest become more confident. I know it's hard for some of you to accept differing views, it's much easier to just label people racist and whatnot rather than refute what they say with honest reasoning, facts and statistics.

 

[petersaxton]

Black Lives Matter actually had a point in the US, but it was hijacked by a small number of idiots and a larger group of opportunists.
The issues that they raised didn't create victims, though. You're just being an apologist for racists.
This is part of the rather disturbing alt-right stuff that you keep echoing.

A lot of people simply don't like being called out on their poor behaviour.
They cry about it and try to fling **** back the other way.
"No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet."

Trying to stop people from raising legitimate concerns and issues is not constructive.

There were some instances where police over reacted and shot black people dead but in the vast majority of cases the police had little choice because the black man attached them with a dangerous weapon. In a few cases they weren't harmed but they were so powerful the police office wouldn't have had a chance without using his firearm.

 

[The Zlatan]

Like I've said before, it's easy to do behind the safety of a keyboard. Put @ZLATAN outside the comfort of his social circle, in the real world - somewhere like Question Time like Griffin and watch him get ridiculed far worse than I did last night. He's too much of a coward to do that though. And he knows it

Don't worry, I'm not one of those people who are shamed into keeping shtum outside of this forum.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Don't worry, I'm not one of those people who are shamed into keeping shtum outside of this forum.

Do you wear a sandwich board and shout at people outside a supermarket?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Black lives matter are largely discredited, even by blacks, because they the fact that the bulk of black deaths are by other blacks, and it is that crime that the Police are trying to protect them from.

My claim was that calling racist adds nothing to a discussion. You offered stop and search as some sort of response, which suggest that you think 'racist' is an appropriate cry, yet you ignore my question on how many black police officers are involved in stop and search. To help you, I posted the view of black police officers, which seems to conflict with the racist claim.

You can claim it's flawed, but simply calling it racist misses a lot of the issue, and isn't constructive.

Calling racist, is as meaningless as you trying to call my position as being a racist apologist, when I'm arguing for more support in what would be largely black areas, but your focus would limit that.

Black Lives Matter has been discredited for it's actions and some of it's weirder beliefs.
It hasn't been discredited because of black-on-black crime. You can be concerned about both.

I didn't offer Stop and Search at all, let alone as a response to anything.
Quoting a police organisation saying that the actions of the police are fine really isn't a response to it, though.
I didn't even call it racist, for a start. I said that it had been applied in a racist manner.

You keep repeating that calling something racist is meaningless, as though the mantra's supposed to convince me.
It's not meaningless and is often extremely appropriate. It simply doesn't suit racists.

 

[The Zlatan]

Do you wear a sandwich board and shout at people outside a supermarket?

No.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I wouldn't call it lifting the veil, I think once one person steps forward, the rest become more confident. I know it's hard for some of you to accept differing views, it's much easier to just label people racist and whatnot rather than refute what they say with honest reasoning, facts and statistics.

You're right in your first assertion. The likes of Farage and Trump have given ****s confidence to assert their ****ishness.

I find it easy to accept differing views. I also find it easy to refute your bullshit.
You don't like being labeled something that you are though, which is odd for someone that's fine with doing it to others.
What tag would you prefer? White Supremacist? Neo-Nazi? Delusional fruitcake? Pick one.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

No.

How do you go about voicing your opinions then, out of interest?

 

[DMD]

Black Lives Matter has been discredited for it's actions and some of it's weirder beliefs.
It hasn't been discredited because of black-on-black crime. You can be concerned about both.

I didn't offer Stop and Search at all, let alone as a response to anything.
Quoting a police organisation saying that the actions of the police are fine really isn't a response to it, though.
I didn't even call it racist, for a start. I said that it had been applied in a racist manner.

You keep repeating that calling something racist is meaningless, as though the mantra's supposed to convince me.
It's not meaningless and is often extremely appropriate. It simply doesn't suit racists.

Oh aye, listen to these racists. There are plenty more.

I posted one of Morgan Freeman's interviews, there are plenty of others were he's saying what I'm saying. I guess he must be a racist too.

You must log in or register to see media

You must log in or register to see media

 

[The Zlatan]

You're right in your first assertion. The likes of Farage and Trump have given ****s confidence to assert their ****ishness.

I find it easy to accept differing views. I also find it easy to refute your bullshit.
You don't like being labeled something that you are though, which is odd for someone that's fine with doing it to others.
What tag would you prefer? White Supremacist? Neo-Nazi? Delusional fruitcake? Pick one.

I think they've given reasonable people the ability to no longer be bullied into accepting things they don't want.

Maybe if you say it enough times, you'll start to believe it. I don't care about any of the labels I'm given, it's part and parcel of political discussion with anyone who leans left. Call me whatever pleases you.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

There were some instances where police over reacted and shot black people dead but in the vast majority of cases the police had little choice because the black man attached them with a dangerous weapon. In a few cases they weren't harmed but they were so powerful the police office wouldn't have had a chance without using his firearm.

There were instances of the police shooting people in the back when they were running away and then planting weapons.

Seriously, if anyone doesn't like to see real, graphic violence, then don't watch this:

You must log in or register to see media

The police in the US are far too trigger happy and kill too many people.
I think that this is caused by the country's issues with firearms, rather than any police or race-related issues, though.
The media's culture of fear over there doesn't help, either.

A number of the high-profile killings that resulted in protests and violence were poorly chosen, though.
It damages the movement and makes it easy for some people to dismiss the whole thing.
I think that Mark Duggan's shooting by the police over here had a similar affect.

 

[The Zlatan]

How do you go about voicing your opinions then, out of interest?

With my mouth?

 

[petersaxton]

There were instances of the police shooting people in the back when they were running away and then planting weapons.

Seriously, if anyone doesn't like to see real, graphic violence, then don't watch this:

You must log in or register to see media

The police in the US are far too trigger happy and kill too many people.
I think that this is caused by the country's issues with firearms, rather than any police or race-related issues, though.
The media's culture of fear over there doesn't help, either.

A number of the high-profile killings that resulted in protests and violence were poorly chosen, though.
It damages the movement and makes it easy for some people to dismiss the whole thing.
I think that Mark Duggan's shooting by the police over here had a similar affect.

Yes, I saw that video. I would expect in some cases the police have experience of people shooting unprepared police so the moment somebody doesn't comply and behaves in such a way that it could reasonably be thought that they had a gun and were going to shoot the police shoot first.

 

[NSIS]

Zero substance. Sad!

They don't come any sadder than racist ****s, like you!..

Why should I want to debate anything with a racist who's agenda is crystal clear?..