The EU debate - Part III

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pieguts said:
See this is what you guys do, which is jump to conclusions. I voted REMAIN. Just because I challenged this belief that we are somehow going to control Brussels by being in the club, when history would show that this is not an accurate assumption, does not make my opinion any less valid than yours.

So because I couldn't be arsed to massage your ego by providing sources, I don't understand facts <laugh>
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It's massaging my ego to provide a source for your own claim? I think you're the one whose ego's talking here, unfortunately.

Who are "you guys", by the way?
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
Your position has been clear, in so far as you've been desperately and repeatedly trying and failing to rejig the words and the arguments and posting abuse when it fails. That is you being tediously true to type.
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You have claimed that immigration played no part in your decision, and that for you - it was solely about leaving an increasingly federalist and undemocratic EU.

I asked a perfectly reasonable question. Why aren't you and others like you, up in arms that our unelected PM has taken the referendum result as being about immigration to the populous, and is formulating a negotiating position based on that being a non negotiable?

She has surely misread the result and the views of the people - you included? As you've been droning on since the result that immigration had **** all to do with it!
 
Tobes said:
You have claimed that immigration played no part in your decision, and that for you - it was solely about leaving an increasingly federalist and undemocratic EU.

I asked a perfectly reasonable question. Why aren't you and others like you, up in arms that our unelected PM has taken the referendum result as being about immigration to the populous, and is formulating a negotiating position based on that being a non negotiable?

She has surely misread the result and the views of the people - you included? As you've been droning on since the result that immigration had **** all to do with it!
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PleaseNotPoll said:
It's massaging my ego to provide a source for your own claim? I think you're the one whose ego's talking here, unfortunately.

Who are "you guys", by the way?
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How is it my massaging my own ego by saying I can't be asked to find sources. It's you that somehow wants to try to prove something but claiming that by not providing sources, it's somehow not true. As I said, I'm not bothered either way, if you think it proves anything then crack on.
"You guys" was a general reference to you, but I was trying not to be personal. However, if you would prefer, it was you jumping to conclusions around which way I voted. Just because I have a different opinion on certain aspects on our membership of Europe, does not make them any less valid.
 
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pieguts said:
How is it my massaging my own ego by saying I can't be asked to find sources. It's you that somehow wants to try to prove something but claiming that by not providing sources, it's somehow not true. As I said, I'm not bothered either way, if you think it proves anything then crack on.
"You guys" was a general reference to you, but I was trying not to be personal. However, if you would prefer, it was you jumping to conclusions around which way I voted. Just because I have a different opinion on certain aspects on our membership of Europe, does not make them any less valid.
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You were the one trying to prove something. You were using Greece as an example for Turkey.
If your claims have no basis, then it certainly does make your opinion less valid.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
You were the one trying to prove something. You were using Greece as an example for Turkey.
If your claims have no basis, then it certainly does make your opinion less valid.
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I'm not trying to prove anything, I quoted Greece as an example of the EU at best turning a blind eye, if not, then being almost negligent when allowing Membership. As others have indicated on here, Greece's financial position, did not meet the EU criteria and could only be improved by "cooking the books". All I have said is that it's happened before, why couldn't it happen again with countries such as Turkey?
Because I didn't run off and provide links to this, as I CANT BE ARSED, it's somehow not factual and has no basis. How narrow minded of you.
 
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Tobes said:
Most of the advice to Greece from the economic experts was that they weren't ready, and that their debt level was incorrectly calculated, but once in, they were deemed credit worthy and spent like a drunken sailor.

To suggest that nothing was learned from that episode - given the cost to the likes of Germany in bailing them out, is pure folly.
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They certainly weren't ready. Nor, I doubt, would they ever have been. However, Goldman copped a big fat juicy fee for cooking their accounts to 'prove' that they met the criteria necessary.

End result: everybody's happy. Everybody except mostly Germany who've copped most of the bill for the Greek prolifigacy.
 
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NowsufferinginSpain said:
They certainly weren't ready. Nor, I doubt, would they ever have been. However, Goldman copped a big fat juicy fee for cooking their accounts to 'prove' that they met the criteria necessary.

End result: everybody's happy. Everybody except mostly Germany who've copped most of the bill for the Greek prolifigacy.
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I remember reading that these accounts were audited by Brussels, not believed to be correct, but membership was still granted.
 
pieguts said:
I'm not trying to prove anything, I quoted Greece as an example of the EU at best turning a blind eye, if not, then being almost negligent when allowing Membership. As others have indicated on here, Greece's financial position, did not meet the EU criteria and could only be improved by "cooking the books". All I have said is that it's happened before, why couldn't it happen again with countries such as Turkey?
Because I didn't run off and provide links to this, as I CANT BE ARSED, it's somehow not factual and has no basis. How narrow minded of you.
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In what way is it narrow minded to ask people to source their claims? Laughable nonsense.

The reason that I asked is because I thought that you were talking about the Euro by mistake, which is the case.
 
pieguts said:
This is the point I'm making, if we had voted to remain, we are saying, as a nation we are happy with the way the EU is run.
What would we be changing? If we are happy, what's to change?
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Problem is, we've now voted to change things for the worse, economically at least. 52% of the electorate voted to leave the EU, and now our govt seems to be reading that as an overwhelming mandate to a) abandon access to the single market regardless of the cost, and b) loudly and publicly demonise all immigrants and blame all the country's problems on those nasty foreigners.

All because Cameron took a punt on there not being enough ignorant angry racists in Britain to swing a 'leave' vote.
 
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Archers Road said:
Problem is, we've now voted to change things for the worse, economically at least. 52% of the electorate voted to leave the EU, and now our govt seems to be reading that as an overwhelming mandate to a) abandon access to the single market regardless of the cost, and b) loudly and publicly demonise all immigrants and blame all the country's problems on those nasty foreigners.

All because Cameron took a punt on there not being enough ignorant angry racists in Britain to swing a 'leave' vote.
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You are totally deluded
 
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Archers Road said:
Is that the best argument you can muster? Calling me deluded does not constitute a rebuttal of my opinions. It's just you rezorting to insult because you are incapable of reasoned argument.
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nothing of what you say has any bearing in reality
what's the point of just saying everything you said was a pack of lies?
 
King Kustard said:
Dear Trog

We vote for a party not a PM
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May said Brown had no mandate when he took over from Blair, and said he should call a GE

She's therefore a complete hypocrite and by her own admission has no mandate

Democracy at its finest
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
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I see you're now modelling your posting style on Kustard, well in.

I'll take the massive swerve as you being snookered and unable to fashion a reasoned response

[HASHTAG]#standard[/HASHTAG]
 
petersaxton said:
nothing of what you say has any bearing in reality
what's the point of just saying everything you said was a pack of lies?
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Why don't you try actually countering what he said, point by point?

Instead you post lazy cover all dismissals, as you're incapable of any level of challenge to your one eyed, bigoted view of the World

Just like your fellow dullard, you're completely vacuous
 
I'm just watching a discussion on Daily Politics and Andrew Neil is appearing to be equating the "working class" with whether they receive free school meals.
My parents were working class and I didn't get free school meals.
 
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