The EU debate - Part III

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Tobes said:
And do you not think that maybe lessons have been learned from that, particularly given that membership of the Euro is now a pre-'requisite?
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Sorry, no I don't. My own beliefs are that a federal Europe was the aim (and still is by some) from the suits in Brussels. Therefore, if a blind eye is turned, to accelerate that process, then that's a price worth paying. The Brexit vote may have put a dent in that vision, but it's still there.
 
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A question for the Leavers here.

Many of you have been saying that the decision had nothing to do with immigration for you.

So I assume you're all up in arms about May hijacking the result to press home Tory ideals on immigration then? Putting immigration ahead of the economy must have you fuming surely?
 
Stanley said:
My opinion was that a narrow Remain win would have given Cameron a lot of power in the EU. He could have gone to them and said "we're still in but only just, so it's reform or die time". There's no question as to how important the UK is/was to the EU and I think the other leaders would have been relieved that we were still in and open to reforms to maintain the stability and future of the EU. As it is, they now seem intent on "punishing" the UK for destabilising what was already an insecure union.

Perversely, I think Boris was of the same opinion and probably still wakes up every day thinking "what the **** have I done?".
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I personally think the exact opposite would have happened. We would have been told, "you voted to remain, suck it up".
Again for me, the punishing comments, demonstrate that challenging the EU is not an option either "in the club" or out of it.
I always been of the belief that we are really not considered European. We're only allowed to play by team France and team Germany because we own the ball.
 
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pieguts said:
I personally think the exact opposite would have happened. We would have been told, "you voted to remain, suck it up".
Again for me, the punishing comments, demonstrate that challenging the EU is not an option either "in the club" or out of it.
I always been of the belief that we are really not considered European. We're only allowed to play by team France and team Germany because we own the ball.
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We own the ball? How so?
 
pieguts said:
I personally think the exact opposite would have happened. We would have been told, "you voted to remain, suck it up".
Again for me, the punishing comments, demonstrate that challenging the EU is not an option either "in the club" or out of it.
I always been of the belief that we are really not considered European. We're only allowed to play by team France and team Germany because we own the ball.
Click to expand...
What a load of nonsense.

Joking.
 
pieguts said:
I personally think the exact opposite would have happened. We would have been told, "you voted to remain, suck it up".
Again for me, the punishing comments, demonstrate that challenging the EU is not an option either "in the club" or out of it.
I always been of the belief that we are really not considered European. We're only allowed to play by team France and team Germany because we own the ball.
Click to expand...
UKIP and the UK press have been peddling this bullshit for years, unfortunately.
Maybe if the MEPs that we sent had actually done their job and got involved, then we might not have this perception?
They decided to just take the money, employ their wives and do nothing, instead.

Any source on that Greece not qualifying for EU membership thing, by the way?
 
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Tobes said:
A question for the Leavers here.

Many of you have been saying that the decision had nothing to do with immigration for you.

So I assume you're all up in arms about May hijacking the result to press home Tory ideals on immigration then? Putting immigration ahead of the economy must have you fuming surely?
Click to expand...

I think it was all about immigration for some on the thread. Some have said as much.

Pandering to idiots, mostly in non-Tory areas, is a sensible move politically. Stupid in every other way but sensible politically, I think.
 
pieguts said:
Sorry, no I don't. My own beliefs are that a federal Europe was the aim (and still is by some) from the suits in Brussels. Therefore, if a blind eye is turned, to accelerate that process, then that's a price worth paying. The Brexit vote may have put a dent in that vision, but it's still there.
Click to expand...
Of course Federalism as an ideal still exists and there are those who will still continue to extol its virtues

However, there's no will for it amongst the populous in Germany, France and UK - the 3 most powerful nations - therefore it'd have never happened.

Your point was originally that a remain vote would have somehow accelerated these ideals, which is absolute bollocks imo.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
UKIP and the UK press have been peddling this bullshit for years, unfortunately.
Maybe if the MEPs that we sent had actually done their job and got involved, then we might not have this perception?
They decided to just take the money, employ their wives and do nothing, instead.

Any source on that Greece not qualifying for EU membership thing, by the way?
Click to expand...

Nope, because I can't be arsed to look for it <laugh>
 
Watford_R said:
I think it was all about immigration for some on the thread. Some have said as much.

Pandering to idiots, mostly in non-Tory areas, is a sensible move politically. Stupid in every other way but sensible politically, I think.
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Others have said it was nothing to do with immigration

I was aiming that question at them specifically
 
Tobes said:
Of course Federalism as an ideal still exists and there are those who will still continue to extol its virtues

However, there's no will for it amongst the populous in Germany, France and UK - the 3 most powerful nations - therefore it'd have never happened.

Your point was originally that a remain vote would have somehow accelerated these ideals, which is absolute bollocks imo.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, it's a shame that with the bollocks comments you can't respect mine.
 
pieguts said:
Nope, because I can't be arsed to look for it <laugh>
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Or because it's not true, perhaps?
King Kustard said:
Angela Merkel will BAN EU migrants from claiming unemployment benefits for five years as her open-door policy continues to hit Germany

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-open-door-policy-continues-hit-Germany.html

So why were the UK banned form doing this?
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From the article that you quoted:
"After months of negotiation, David Cameron was eventually offered an 'emergency brake' on migration which created a seven year window in which new arrivals to Britain from the EU could be denied benefits."

The UK wasn't banned from doing it. Maybe read the stuff that you're posting in future, eh?
 
Tobes said:
A question for the Leavers here.

Many of you have been saying that the decision had nothing to do with immigration for you.

So I assume you're all up in arms about May hijacking the result to press home Tory ideals on immigration then? Putting immigration ahead of the economy must have you fuming surely?
Click to expand...

Far too many strawmen being built there to be taken seriously.

Immigration and the economy were not major factors for me, which is different to what you're desperately trying to claim. The version of immigration issue some remoaners try to create is a strawman too.

May's not dealing with border controls singularly, nor in isolation.
 
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pieguts said:
Nope, because I can't be arsed to look for it <laugh>
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You were wrong btw.

Greece cooked the books and hid the real extent of their debt level. Their books declared that their debt was under the 3% of GDP level that was the prerequisite for joining.the reality was that it was over 8%.
 
Tobes said:
Which is another reason we should not be invoking article 50 until post those elections

As immigration will feature heavily in both, and freedom of movement as it stands today could well come under severe pressure.

But no, the rabid Tories want to press on with their hard Brexit beforehand.
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That's idiocy on May's part, if she allows herself to be railroaded by those ****ing idiots into triggering article 50 too soon.

If she does, she'll prove herself even weaker than I thought.
 
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Tobes said:
You were wrong btw.

Greece cooked the books and hid the real extent of their debt level. Their books declared that their debt was under the 3% of GDP level that was the prerequisite for joining.mthe reality was that it was over 8%.
Click to expand...

More accurately, mate, their books were cooked for them by Goldman Sachs!...
 
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