The EU debate - Part III

You need to stop reading The Express. Cameron talked it up in 2010. Things have changed a bit since then.

Trying to get Turkey to qualify for EU membership will take decades.
They simply don't reach the standards required in many areas and have taken great strides backwards recently.
Helping them to move forward and hit targets requires dramatic changes, many of which they won't make.
Having them as an ally is currently important though, so talks needed to happen and they had to be positive.

 

Sorry but what a load of nonsense. In my opinion etc.

 

Do you honestly think that the arrogance continually shown by Brussels would somehow be dented because the vote was close?

 

Yes, I do....

They may be arrogant, but they're not blind.

 

And your point is?

 

...couldn't have put it better myself... which is unusual for me...

 

OK, if that what you believe then fair enough. I don't think they would ever change in there beliefs.

 

That you started the post with "what a load of nonsense" and then went on to express opinion instead of fact. Difficult to take your post seriously.

 

Never read the express in my life, but you have admitted that Cameron was not against Turkeys membership.
As for your second paragraph, I will answer it with one word ....Greece

 

They've already changed to an extent. Juncker has publicly admitted that a federal Europe is currently a non starter, the people of Europe have no appetitive for it.

And, as PNP says, the immigration issue will have to be dealt with. Germany's disastrous open door to all policy has gone horribly wrong. Merkel will have to carry the can for that one.

 

Where as your comments are always factual?

 

Cameron's not against anyone's membership, theoretically. Why would he be?
He talked about Turkey, Macedonia and Serbia specifically and each has it's own issues to deal with before membership's possible.
That doesn't mean that they'd be able to join tomorrow or somehow get fast-tracked, as has been suggested.

Greece? What about it? They'd block Turkey instantly. Good answer.

 

But this started with Stans comment that "it's better to be inside making changes, than outside" which I challenged. I agree that since the vote, noises are coming out from Brussels around change, but I still maintain this is as a result of the vote. If the vote had been remain, would the same noises be heard?
I guess we will never know!

 

Nope.

 

You mentioned that countries have to meet certain criteria before being allowed membership, I pointed out that Greece did not meet that criteria but were still allowed membership.

 

Which is another reason we should not be invoking article 50 until post those elections

As immigration will feature heavily in both, and freedom of movement as it stands today could well come under severe pressure.

But no, the rabid Tories want to press on with their hard Brexit beforehand.

 

And do you not think that maybe lessons have been learned from that, particularly given that membership of the Euro is now a pre-'requisite?

 

Source?

 

My opinion was that a narrow Remain win would have given Cameron a lot of power in the EU. He could have gone to them and said "we're still in but only just, so it's reform or die time". There's no question as to how important the UK is/was to the EU and I think the other leaders would have been relieved that we were still in and open to reforms to maintain the stability and future of the EU. As it is, they now seem intent on "punishing" the UK for destabilising what was already an insecure union.

Perversely, I think Boris was of the same opinion and probably still wakes up every day thinking "what the **** have I done?".

 

I don't disagree with any of this, I was reading some horrific tales on immigration problems, driven by far right activists, currently in both Germany and France. This is likely to get worse before it gets better.
But my original comment still stands. I continually hear that we need to be in the club to influence change. My belief is that the change we all agree is necessary, will have to be forced on Brussels. Whether that is the Brexit vote or potential election issues, I have no idea. I do think that a remain vote wouldn't have driven that change.