The EU debate - Part III

[NSIS]

Same point, same reply.

You may wish to consider that currently non EU migrants to the U.K. have to display a minimum income of £35,000 or risk deportation. That has been the case for existing immigrants since April 6th. That figure is currently less for potential new migrants, but there are other restrictions too.


To enter or stay in the UK as a skilled worker, non-EU migrants must have a Tier 2 visa. To qualify, you must have been offered a job in the UK and have held at least £945 in your bank account for 90 days.

The job you’re offered must pay at least £20,800, although the government is currently considering a recommendation to raise this to £30,000. Certain occupations do not have to meet this threshold.




Unless any of the above changes, I fail to see how there will be much increased immigration from Southern Asia.

As I say, these people who make these claims are either unaware of that rule - -although it's there, or they're full of ****.

I'll plump for the latter....

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

We don't need any immigrants. There is a plethora of British unemployed queuing up to pick fruit and carry bricks for minimum wage all over the country. Everyone knows that.

 

[pieguts]

I think the logic being used is that those 6mill votes, to use a figure, were easily the difference between leave winning and losing.

The difference in votes was some 1.3mill. But let's say 1mill. So, 17 mill vote leave and 16 mill vote remain. If we say that only half of those 6 mill who voted leave may have voted remain had immigration not been an issue, then you can easily see how the numbers change.

To add, i think there are those who had genuine concerns about the level of immigration to the U.K. But equally many were narrow minded bigots who are just, well, xenophobes.

But you can't just take those numbers in isolation and discard the rest, that's the point I'm making. My view is it's highly unlikely the "hardcore" 6 million would ever have there minds changed. They were quite happy to have there views recorded.
In a first past the post vote, every vote counts.

 

[NSIS]

But you can't just take those numbers in isolation and discard the rest, that's the point I'm making. My view is it's highly unlikely the "hardcore" 6 million would ever have there minds changed. They were quite happy to have there views recorded.
In a first past the post vote, every vote counts.

How do you know this 6 mill were hardcore, to a man or woman?

You can't!....

 

[pieguts]

Without those who voted with immigration as their prime factor then Leave didn't win ffs

We weren't talking about the swing voters, we were talking about the xenophobes and little Englanders who ultimately delivered Brexit. It's a fact that circa 80% of them think multiculturalism and immigration are a force for ill.

Immigration was a massive part of why Brexit happened, anyone disputing that simple fact needs to give their head a wobble

Your very first sentence shows a total lack of any understanding. Yes the 6 million made a third of the required vote number up, in the same way as the 11 milllion made up the two thirds of the remainder.
Why do you only continue to focus on the 6 million, why not the views of the other 11 million. Is it because this doesn't suit your normal racist rhetoric?
Ultimately 17 million + voters delivered Brexit, not the 6 you keep claiming. Yes immigration was a key message for Brexit, I have said that on a number of occasions, but it obviously wasn't the only reason, which has been backed up by the surveys.

 

[pieguts]

How do you know this 6 mill were hardcore, to a man or woman?

You can't!....

touché...

Well they openly admitted that immigration was their reason to vote!

 

[Tobes]

Your very first sentence shows a total lack of any understanding. Yes the 6 million made a third of the required vote number up, in the same way as the 11 milllion made up the two thirds of the remainder.
Why do you only continue to focus on the 6 million, why not the views of the other 11 million. Is it because this doesn't suit your normal racist rhetoric?
Ultimately 17 million + voters delivered Brexit, not the 6 you keep claiming. Yes immigration was a key message for Brexit, I have said that on a number of occasions, but it obviously wasn't the only reason, which has been backed up by the surveys.

I've never said it was the only issue plums, merely that so many holding the opinion that it was the prime factor combined with over 2/3rds of leave voters seeing multiculturalism and immigration as a force for ill, means that ultimately it was the deciding factor

If the EU had agreed to cease free movement before the referendum do you think Brexit would have happened?

 

[Tobes]

It's self explanatory stumpy. It's not achievable. The result will be a less divisive and discriminatory border policy.

The result if the Tories make good on their election promise, will be less non EU immigrants not more, post Brexit.

Therefore the system will have to be tightened to exclude more non EU citizens, the idea that the end of free movement somehow benefits non EU citizens is a complete nonsense

 

[Tobes]

You've failed to back up the claim stumpy, you've just trotted out bigoted rhetoric as you SJW's do. .

What was that about labels Sarge?

 

[pieguts]

I've never said it was the only issue plums, merely that so many holding the opinion that it was the prime factor combined with over 2/3rds of leave voters seeing multiculturalism and immigration as a force for ill, means that ultimately it was the deciding factor

If the EU had agreed to cease free movement before the referendum do you think Brexit would have happened?

Plums that a new one? The multiculturalism and immigration as a force for ill, is completely irrelevant to actual votes. You are clinging desperately to this as it suits your argument and have provided no proof of any correlation between the two. Here's one for you....9 out of 10 owners say there cats prefer whiskers. Sounds good doesn't it, but again totally irrevelavant.
You keep believing your "wonderland theories" whilst the rest of us use the actual facts at our disposal.

I don't think the referemdum should have happened full stop and don't see any issue with free movement, so I'm not best qualified to answer that question.

 

[Tobes]

Plums that a new one? The multiculturalism and immigration as a force for ill, is completely irrelevant to actual votes. You are clinging desperately to this as it suits your argument and have provided no proof of any correlation between the two. Here's one for you....9 out of 10 owners say there cats prefer whiskers. Sounds good doesn't it, but again totally irrevelavant.
You keep believing your "wonderland theories" whilst the rest of us use the actual facts at our disposal.

I don't think the referemdum should have happened full stop and don't see any issue with free movement, so I'm not best qualified to answer that question.

How is it completely irrelevant? It shows the mindset 80% of leave voters who held that view compared to 20% of remain.

You're dismissing it as irrelevant as for some reason you don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration played a pivotal role in delivering Brexit.

Which is also why you've swerved answering my straightforward question.

Plums is a Scouse expression Kopite

 

[DMD]

The result if the Tories make good on their election promise, will be less non EU immigrants not more, post Brexit.

Therefore the system will have to be tightened to exclude more non EU citizens, the idea that the end of free movement somehow benefits non EU citizens is a complete nonsense

A change to an equal system is hardly nonsense.

 

[DMD]

You may wish to consider that currently non EU migrants to the U.K. have to display a minimum income of £35,000 or risk deportation. That has been the case for existing immigrants since April 6th. That figure is currently less for potential new migrants, but there are other restrictions too.


To enter or stay in the UK as a skilled worker, non-EU migrants must have a Tier 2 visa. To qualify, you must have been offered a job in the UK and have held at least £945 in your bank account for 90 days.

The job you’re offered must pay at least £20,800, although the government is currently considering a recommendation to raise this to £30,000. Certain occupations do not have to meet this threshold.




Unless any of the above changes, I fail to see how there will be much increased immigration from Southern Asia.

As I say, these people who make these claims are either unaware of that rule - -although it's there, or they're full of ****.

I'll plump for the latter....

Which highlights the divisive nature of the current system and brexit presents an opportunity to correct.

 

[pieguts]

How is it completely irrelevant? It shows the mindset 80% of leave voters who held that view compared to 20% of remain.

You're dismissing it as irrelevant as for some reason you don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration played a pivotal role in delivering Brexit.

Which is also why you've swerved answering my straightforward question.

Plums is a Scouse expression Kopite

I'm not swerving anything. 6 million people voted to leave the EU, with immigration as the main reason, and another poll shows that 80% of leavers had concerns over immigration, but with no correlation to which way they voted.
I'm not sure what else I can say as these are the facts?
I have answere your question honestly, but it's not what you want to here. Quite frankly that's not my problem.
At this point normally, you generally accuse posters of racism, but in my case you can't.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Which highlights the divisive nature of the current system and brexit presents an opportunity to correct.

How does Brexit change that?

 

[DMD]

How does Brexit change that?

Dedpending how it pans out, it could create an opportunity for the rules to be applied equally to all.

 

[NSIS]

Which highlights the divisive nature of the current system and brexit presents an opportunity to correct.

Bullshit, in a word!...

 

[DMD]

Bullshit, in a word!...

Do we currently have at least two systems of border control/immigration requirements? Is one system more stringent than another?

 

[NSIS]

Do we currently have at least two systems of border control/immigration requirements? Is one system more stringent than another?[/QUOTE


We're currently members of a 'club', ffs!.

Like all clubs, of course there are different rules for members and non members!..

 

[Tobes]

A change to an equal system is hardly nonsense.

Intimating that it's a benefit to non EU citizens is both inaccurate and disingenuous.

Hence the reason that line has been peddled by Farage