The EU debate - Part III

[petersaxton]

That wasn't my point. No Conservative argued that we not joining Schengen and signing up to the Social Chapter was anti-democratic because there had been a referendum in favour of being in the EU. Now that there is a narrow majority for out that's all we hear.

There was a referendum in favour of being in the European Community (the Common Market).
1975: Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?
2015: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
The Schengen Agreement was signed on 14 June 1985
The Maastricht Treaty undertaken to integrate Europe was signed on 7 February 1992 and included the Social Chapter
Being in the EU is one thing but being part of the Schengen Agreement and the Social Chapter is another and they both came after the 1975 referendum
The 2015 referendum was clear in that it asked whether we should remain a member of the EU

 

[Tobes]

please don't make the error others do by adding to replies with assumptions.

This morning ^

You take far to narrow and simplistic a view and people with a wider view confuse you and make you angry.

Your insecurity manifests as arrogance.

Now ^

Do as I say......

 

[NSIS]

... wash your mouth out with soap NSIS ... this is the Conservative Party you are speaking of not some loony leftie labour alliterative generalist construct of a blinkered mind .

Blinkers might help them, mate, at least they might then see the sign saying 'certain disaster this way'

 

[petersaxton]

If your posts are an example of what your life has reduced you to, I'll stay happy as I am.

You're proud to declare yourself a bigot, yet you hurl it around like an insult and get offended when your bigotry is pointed out.

Maybe have a word with your councillor and get them to up your meds.

I think you mean counsellor

 

[DMD]

You taik so much bollocks and you maybe wonder why nobody with more than a quarter of a brain takes you remotely seriously.

What makes me angry are idiots, like you, who, even when they're proven to be wrong, still persist in their diversionary tactics until they bore everybody else into giving up.

I repeat, you're a hypocrite.

Ah right, so you're just angry with yourself, given it's you that's been proven wrong.

It's surprising you've an ego left to be hurt, given your repeated record of failure, and that being by your own bizarre rules too.

You're a self confessed bigot that accuses others of bigotry as an insult. That's pretty muchbtext book definition of a hypocrite and an idiot.

 

[paultheplug]

There was a referendum in favour of being in the European Community (the Common Market).
1975: Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?
2015: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
The Schengen Agreement was signed on 14 June 1985
The Maastricht Treaty undertaken to integrate Europe was signed on 7 February 1992 and included the Social Chapter
Being in the EU is one thing but being part of the Schengen Agreement and the Social Chapter is another and they both came after the 1975 referendum
The 2015 referendum was clear in that it asked whether we should remain a member of the EU

When have we ever been in the Schengen Agreement?

 

[The RDBD]

So what?

So there is nothing inherent in inter-dependent trade that requires citizens of
either trading nation to have the rights to walk into the other nation as they chose.

 

[DMD]

I think you mean counsellor

I was trying to stay on the political topic. ...honest.

 

[PowerSpurs]

There was a referendum in favour of being in the European Community (the Common Market).
1975: Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?
2015: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
The Schengen Agreement was signed on 14 June 1985
The Maastricht Treaty undertaken to integrate Europe was signed on 7 February 1992 and included the Social Chapter
Being in the EU is one thing but being part of the Schengen Agreement and the Social Chapter is another and they both came after the 1975 referendum
The 2015 referendum was clear in that it asked whether we should remain a member of the EU

As the first part of your answer shows this is not a question that can really be sensibly answered Yes or No. All we know from the referendum is that 48% are happy with the current EU and 52% are not.

 

[petersaxton]

When have we ever been in the Schengen Agreement?

PowerSpurs said: "The thing that most pisses me off about the Brexit vote is that while there was a majority in favour when we first joined, because there was a substantial vote against the Govt always had an excuse for not embracing full membership, so we lost valuable protections for poorer people like the Social Chapter of the treaties, other opt outs and also wider economic and social benefits of the Euro, Schengen etc. Now that the vote is marginally in favour of leaving it is being interpreted as a hard instruction from the people to get out at all costs."
I was responding to his post.
Do keep up.

 

[Tobes]

So there is nothing inherent in inter-dependent trade that requires citizens of
either trading nation to have the rights to walk into the other nation as they chose.

Only there is...

The 4 freedoms on the Union - goods, services, money and people.

 

[petersaxton]

As the first part of your answer shows this is not a question that can really be sensibly answered Yes or No. All we know from the referendum is that 48% are happy with the current EU and 52% are not.

I'm not sure why you say the question can't be sensibly answered with a yes or know
I don't think the last referendum means that 48% are happy with the current EU. Many Remain people say that we should have stayed and reform it from within

 

[Tiddler]

Their fear of a successful UK destabilising the EU drives a lot of it.

Seems to be driving quite a few on here as well

 

[Tobes]

I'm not sure why you say the question can't be sensibly answered with a yes or know
I don't think the last referendum means that 48% are happy with the current EU. Many Remain people say that we should have stayed and reform it from within

Maybe not.

But equally you can't say that 52% were unhappy with the EU, as plenty of the clowns voted in protest at your beloved Tories and others thought the Muzzies would be shown the door.

 

[The RDBD]

Only there is...

For the EU members and those who wish to be members.

 

[Tobes]

For the EU members and those who wish to be members.

...and for any European country wishing to have access to the single market.....

 

[Archers Road]

Well in war, there are casualties on both sides.
The extent of which is driven by which of dogma or pragma dominates the mindset
of each side.

And in war, the victor only seems to win; in reality everyone loses. So well done Cameron you ****ing posh twat, for plunging us in to an unnecessary conflict.

 

[The RDBD]

...and for any European country wishing to have access to the single market.....

If God was at this moment to swap the physical positions of the USA and UK right now,
while the EU and USA are brokering a trade deal, that the EU would now demand the
USA allows "free movement" of EU citizens across the 20 miles of water, because the
USA now meets the geographical definition of a "European" country ??

 

[petersaxton]

If God was at this moment to swap the physical positions of the USA and UK right now,
while the EU and USA are brokering a trade deal, that the EU would now demand the
USA allows "free movement" of EU citizens across the 20 miles of water, because the
USA now meets the geographical definition of a "European" country ??

I've explained this to many of the people on here several times. It appears to be a concept beyond their ability to grasp.

 

[Tobes]

If God was at this moment to swap the physical positions of the USA and UK right now,
while the EU and USA are brokering a trade deal, that the EU would now demand the
USA allows "free movement" of EU citizens across the 20 miles of water, because the
USA now meets the geographical definition of a "European" country ??

I can hear Boris coming out with that in Brussels.

When they stop laughing they'll probably remind him the USA doesn't form part of Europe.

This has been done to death see Norway and Switzerland for details of what access to the single market for non EU European countries looks like....

The likes of Pete are expecting the EU to drop to their knees and blow us off when we arrive at the negotiating table - as we're British!