The EU debate - Part II

Yes, exactly. It's the doctrinaire way that Corbyn & co behave that troubles me too. This 'you're with us or against us' attitude.

 

Agreed.

The far left who have taken to Corbyn and labelled the rest of the party as sell out Blairites and Tory lite are delusional imo, as they appear to be clinging onto some bonkers notion that a far left leader like Corbyn could somehow form a Govt.

How?

In the current electoral system in this country, how the actual **** is a leftie, life long protestor like Corbyn ever going to win the key marginals back from the Tories?

The Corbynistas always come back with some bollocks about how they'd rather see the party being true to its roots, rather than being actually electable as thus being of any real relevance, it's bark at the moon stuff.

 

We've done all this many times already.

Whatever your policies may be, if you're not in power they mean nothing!..

The swing voters, who decide many elections, will never vote for a Corbyn led Labour.

 

Dispatches at the minute are looking into the labour market in Poland, and other EU countries. Seems they're making up their labour gap with slaves from North Korea. The North Korean State helps out because they make a profit on the deal, which they use to fund their nuclear weapons programme.

 

Im not calling my opinion fact, the only thing i called fact was that the coup started 6 months before the referendum. http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/28/truth-behind-labour-coup-really-began-manufactured-exclusive/

My opinion is that the thousands of supporters corbyn attracted to the party (fact membership has increased significantly since corbyn became leadership), will be disillusioned if the plp gerrymander the result and force Corbyn out for a right wing candidate. Its my opinion that a lot of these will diffect to other parties and never vote for labour again. I base this on comments ive seen and conversations ive had - not definitive at all but just my opinion.

Its my opinion that labour's decline in support will continue if this happens (they've lost millions of votes between 1997 and 2015).

 

So being similar to the Tories is the only way to win back Scotland from the SNP, bring back disaffected voters from Wales and across the country, appeal to the millions pissed off with austerity and offer an alternative to the Tories to convince swing voters/Tory voters to vote for labour instead?

Its sooooo obvious - do the thing thats failed spectacularly in the past as its the only way to success!!!

 

Sorry, but you're looking at it from a personal point of view. The U.K. has intrinsically a moderate electorate. They dislike, in the majority, extremism. Corbyn is hard left and that's no more popular now - as opinion polls show - than it was 30+ yrs ago when Michael Foot was in the same position.

Corby is far too doctrinaire. He brooks no deviation from his views or policies.

You will never convince Mr & Mrs semi-detached to vote for him. And, like it or not, they are invariably the ones who decide which way an election will go.

 

It's got **** all to do with being similar to the Tories

And everything to do with having policies that the majority will find attractive

The far left bollocks that dates back to a **** bygone era of the 70's and beyond isn't what people want. There's nothing wrong with either embracing business or making people accountable for themselves as basic principles. Where Labour and the Tories should differ is how those principles are embodied in policy.

The core vote in this country are barely touched by austerity (if at all, tangibly) least of all Tory voters. I'd wager that the majority believe that the benefits cuts that have capped incomes for the unemployed are a good thing btw. As people in work get ****ed off with career doleites.

 

What specifically is Corbyn 'Hard left' about ?

 

Nationalisation, to begin with. The unions, etc....

Whether you view him as hard left or not is irrelevant. That's how he's viewed by the majority of the electorate.

 

UKIP promote re-Nationalism - does that make them hard left?

 

Given how poorly energy companies and the railways have performed since privatisation, coupled with ridiculously high prices and the regulator constantly having to step in to ensure customers get a fairer deal, I'd say that there is an appetite for nationalisation.

As for how the 'majority of the electorate' see him, that is down to how much BS people allow themselves to swallow by unconsciously accepting the bile spouted by the likes of The Sun, The Mail, Express etc. My personal opinion is that they have had it their way for a long time, but there is a groundswell of support from younger voters for Corbyn and in general, an appetite for a different way of doing politics.

Ken Clarke said it recently, when it comes to actual campaigning, Corbyn is very hard to campaign against. Because his policies are actually those that suit the working class the best. When it comes to a GE, he's going to be given a huge platform to challenge the status quo and I think he will win back those Labour voters who became apathetic towards politics.

 

How the **** is Corbyn hard left???

You seem to know little of his actual policies or how he wants Labour to be a broad church - hence offering important positions to people as diverse as Lord Faulkner (sp?), Benn, Eagle, Yvette Cooper, John McDonald, Andy Burnham. So it's hardly like he brooks no deviation - indeed he seeks advice from people - such as women about what they'd like to see to make travel safer for single females. But is a man if principle - which is perhaps where you are confusing the issue.

You say the UK is intrinsically moderate at a time of the rise of UKIP, the far right, and a Tory party further right wing than Thatchers!

 

No, they're more hard right. Although I do wonder sometimes what the difference is. They are both absolutists and want to tell others what's good for them and how to run tneir lives.

If UKIP support partial Nationalisation, and I haven't checked your claim, it will almost certainly be targeted at those companies owned by Dastardly foreigners!

Personally, I would support renationalisation of water, it's an essential commodity for life itself. However, I do wonder where all the money would come from to pay for all this?

 

And you don't think they performed poorly beforehand!....

 

Again, you look at it from your point of view!

The majority of the U.K. Public is moderate. And. Like it or not, Corbyn is viewed as hard left. As the opinion polls clearly show....

 

Ahh im glad Farage is a moderate. That's put my mind at rest

 

Like this one, that shows that Corbyn is perceived to be twice as left as Milliband

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/29/jeremy-corbyn-twice-left-wing-ed-miliband/

 

You hard left, trotsky!

If you'd looked into it you'd realise it cost us more now we've privatised the railways and are subsidising the network lines/franchises (whatever they're called), than when it was nationalised

 

I don't think that a majority see nationalisation of transport and utilities as far left and many non labour supporters are in unions. If you think that keeping the NHS in public hands is far left then a majority of the electorate are far left.
Only a small percentage of the MSM publish fully accurate reports about Labour's new policies. Many publish nothing at all and about 20% deliberately publish inaccurate reports.
Support for Labour in by-elections and mayoral elections has increased since Corbyn became leader so it is disingenuous to suggest that people will not vote for Labour with him as leader