The Championship 23/24 Thread
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I will be annoyed if we appoint a new manager before the season is out. We have made two rash decisions this season already and I just feel that we need to take stock of the players who will remain and what kind of personality would work to get the best out of the players. We need to get a new culture with people with the right mentality. I am not sure we can do this in a few weeks. Whilst i do not doubt that the data has been assessed since Selles was appointed, my opinion is that the board should be starting from scratch and looking at new data and not the stuff compiled by the old team that led to the appointment of Nathan Jones. This is why a swift move for the Swansea boss seems premature.
If I am honest, I would like to see as many people moved on as possible, both amongst the playing and non-playng staff. I just want the club to be more responsible and look as assembling a project that acutally gels together. We probably need someone with a reputation and a bit of clout in the game. I would be in favour with Patrick Viera - as someone said in here today, he did nit get a fair crack of the whip at Palace and you have to have sympathy with someone who has to deal with Zaha day in, day out.
If I am honest, I would like to see as many people moved on as possible, both amongst the playing and non-playng staff. I just want the club to be more responsible and look as assembling a project that acutally gels together. We probably need someone with a reputation and a bit of clout in the game. I would be in favour with Patrick Viera - as someone said in here today, he did nit get a fair crack of the whip at Palace and you have to have sympathy with someone who has to deal with Zaha day in, day out.
We haven't got time to wait. Season ends really late due to the World Cup, next season will start a week earlier due to being in the Championship. Time is unfortunately a luxury we do not have.
Given the debacle with Jones during the World Cup break, it would not be surprising if they squandered that time anyway.. I am not counting on immediate promotion and think that alot of repair work needs to be done behind the scenes with things like the academy which has not produced anything since JWP. Whoever comes in needs to sweep the place clean. I am not confident in SR getting it right at the third attempt and the problems in the club are broader than just getting a coach. It will take time to rebuild and I think that the foundations will need to be laid for a successful promotion bid at the second attempt. It is foolish to believe that we will go straight up nexr season. If we are mid-table, it will be positive.We can then move on in 24/25. Anything else is not realistic.
My gut feeling here is that a meltdown is probably coming from me - again.
. I really, really, really want to be positive.But if this turns out to be true I cannot understand it. We have one or two seasons with parachute money whilst we are still seen as a premier league club in waiting.
Seems insane to waste this time with an inexperienced manager managed by an inexperienced director of football managed by Ankersen the clown.
As usual I really hope I am wrong; but most of my negative gut feelings about saints have proven true this year.
Swansea were 9th when we sacked Ralph. They finished 10th. So it's not like Martin has overseen has overseen some sort of amazing run of form since we decided to go with Jones.
Without wanting to sound arrogant, if we'd have wanted to get Martin from Swansea back in November, I'm certain we could have got him. So he a was a live option for us back then, just like he is now. But we didn't go for him back then, we evidently thought Jones was a better option. That concerns me.
Without wanting to sound arrogant, if we'd have wanted to get Martin from Swansea back in November, I'm certain we could have got him. So he a was a live option for us back then, just like he is now. But we didn't go for him back then, we evidently thought Jones was a better option. That concerns me.
I guess it depends how much input Wilcox has now compared to back then, or some of the others for that matter. Reports all seem to point to Ankerson alone being in favour of Jones, so maybe everyone else preferred Martin back then but Ankerson ignored them?
I know nothing about Martin, and I have no idea who else is a realistic option so if he does come in just hope it works
Potential for some proper big/old school clubs to be in the Championship if Sheffield Wednesday pull through here...
So we are not going to wait to see who else is available at the end of the season? Ie Steve Cooper, should he get fired.My gut feeling here is that a meltdown is probably coming from me - again.
But if this turns out to be true I cannot understand it. We have one or two seasons with parachute money whilst we are still seen as a premier league club in waiting.
Seems insane to waste this time with an inexperienced manager managed by an inexperienced director of football managed by Ankersen the clown.
As usual I really hope I am wrong; but most of my negative gut feelings about saints have proven true this year.
The prospect of appointing a manager from the championship with a win record worse than that of Nathan Jones does not fill me with much other than dread. In the Champ Jones averaged 1.6ppg and Martin has managed 1.4 and 1.3 in his last 2 seasons.
I agree w DTLW when he says we are a crisis club. We are not just looking to rebuild a squad we are rebuilding the entire club. We didn't just get relegated we downed tools and walked away without so much as a whimper. Key staff have left from every department. The manner in which we have played at home this season is a damning indictment of how little the badge and the fans matter to the players. No other club in the league has shown so little fight or passion.
Carrick would be the only manager I would consider from the champ (burnley aside) because he has a winning pedigree from his playing days that obviously translates to his managerial style. Its not about style on the pitch its about ethos and standards and how those are maintained and enforced. We appear to have a squad of grown babies that have been allowed to get away with whatever they wanted. They have downed tools for consecutive seasons, for 3 managers in a row while being paid and pampered. That's why Selles failed to get results, he couldn't change the culture because he had helped to build it.
I don't personally believe we will bounce back. The players don't care and if you diagree, show me the evidence. The chances of getting rid and bringing in adequate replacements in the short break ahead seems very slight to me. It will take very little to get us back to where we are now, losing is a habit we have cultivated for two years, one loss will turn into two will turn into three and we will be back to where we are now.
I agree w DTLW when he says we are a crisis club. We are not just looking to rebuild a squad we are rebuilding the entire club. We didn't just get relegated we downed tools and walked away without so much as a whimper. Key staff have left from every department. The manner in which we have played at home this season is a damning indictment of how little the badge and the fans matter to the players. No other club in the league has shown so little fight or passion.
Carrick would be the only manager I would consider from the champ (burnley aside) because he has a winning pedigree from his playing days that obviously translates to his managerial style. Its not about style on the pitch its about ethos and standards and how those are maintained and enforced. We appear to have a squad of grown babies that have been allowed to get away with whatever they wanted. They have downed tools for consecutive seasons, for 3 managers in a row while being paid and pampered. That's why Selles failed to get results, he couldn't change the culture because he had helped to build it.
I don't personally believe we will bounce back. The players don't care and if you diagree, show me the evidence. The chances of getting rid and bringing in adequate replacements in the short break ahead seems very slight to me. It will take very little to get us back to where we are now, losing is a habit we have cultivated for two years, one loss will turn into two will turn into three and we will be back to where we are now.
Shades of our last Championship season, when we were rubbing shoulders with at least five former English champions of days gone by (usually days looooong since gone by).
I disagree about the 'club in crisis' thing. That would suggest that all hope has gone, when in reality, we are just one sensible managerial appointment away from getting back on our feet and challenging at the top end of the Championship. And yes, while it is slightly concerning that there are lots of people leaving behind the scenes, I expect this is fairly normal when you have a change of ownership. The bottom line, is that we have a billionaire owner who is willing to spend. The real crisis would be if he suddenly wanted out, and sold us back to the Chinese.
But, if we get the managerial appointment wrong, then yes, we will find ourselves stumbling ever closer to the cliff edge. And this is where I agree with you, in raising concern about Russell Martin coming in as the new manager. While he might have potential, he is still very raw. Ultimately I just don't think he instills faith in the fanbase. This could be the biggest problem. It was the biggest problem for Jones, and things are so toxic right now, that if we don't make a reasonably solid start to the campaign, then straight away there will be pressure on Martin, and I don't think an inexperienced manager will cope with that.
At least if we hired, say, Scott Parker, then the fans would be somewhat placated, because he has a more satisfactory CV. Even if it goes wrong, he would have been a logical choice. If it goes bad for Martin, then things would be exacerbated by the fact that the fans would consider it to have been another experiment by Ankersen blowing up in our faces.
Basically, SR haven't earned the right to make a gamble with the next appointment. And Martin is a massive gamble.
On Russell Martin;
Mixed feelings about him from Swansea fans. Quite divisive, like Ralph in his final season with us. Many think that he is a very good coach being held back by a lack of quality in the squad, as well as a lack of spending during the transfer windows. Others think this is bollocks, and that the squad is capable of achieving more.
They started this season fairly well, but had a huge dip in form from November to March (!), in which Martin was apparently very stubborn in sticking with his preferred three at the back (!). Eventually when he switched to a back four, results started improving, and by the end of the season things were looking okay again. So, if Swansea fans had been told Martin was leaving a couple of months ago, they would have probably been happy about it. Now it seems he has gained favour with some of them again.
This is a clear indicator that he is very raw, and basically experimenting on the job. That's risky sounding to me. Can a manager like that really expect to be given respect in the dressing room? Probably not. And that's a worry. Our players are lacking in confidence, so the last thing they need is a manager who hasn't achieved anything.
Martin must be doing something right within footballing circles though, he must have the respect of those in the know, because otherwise I can't see why he would be getting linked to us and Leicester.
Swansea's previous two managers were Potter and Cooper, so it would seem that at least they make sound managerial appointments. At the moment, sadly, this is all that gives me much hope.
Mixed feelings about him from Swansea fans. Quite divisive, like Ralph in his final season with us. Many think that he is a very good coach being held back by a lack of quality in the squad, as well as a lack of spending during the transfer windows. Others think this is bollocks, and that the squad is capable of achieving more.
They started this season fairly well, but had a huge dip in form from November to March (!), in which Martin was apparently very stubborn in sticking with his preferred three at the back (!). Eventually when he switched to a back four, results started improving, and by the end of the season things were looking okay again. So, if Swansea fans had been told Martin was leaving a couple of months ago, they would have probably been happy about it. Now it seems he has gained favour with some of them again.
This is a clear indicator that he is very raw, and basically experimenting on the job. That's risky sounding to me. Can a manager like that really expect to be given respect in the dressing room? Probably not. And that's a worry. Our players are lacking in confidence, so the last thing they need is a manager who hasn't achieved anything.
Martin must be doing something right within footballing circles though, he must have the respect of those in the know, because otherwise I can't see why he would be getting linked to us and Leicester.
Swansea's previous two managers were Potter and Cooper, so it would seem that at least they make sound managerial appointments. At the moment, sadly, this is all that gives me much hope.
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I posted in the general football thread earlier about the high performance podcast - if you've never listened, I recommend it - and they were sitting down with Brentford DoF Phil Giles. I was interested because of the success they've achieved but also because of the Rasmus connection. Others on here have remarked on how Brentford didnt replace Rasmus and have actually got stronger. What I latched onto was Giles' admission around data driven recruitment and speed of change. In short, data got overblown and they have recruited poorly in the past and now data is used to identify people but its ultimately who they are and what they are like that gets them in the door. They never consider people with the wrong attitude anymore. They went through a phase of growth that was dramatic and involved significant change in a short period of time. Many people from many parts of the club were brought in and it didnt work. It didn't have time to gel and settle. It was too much too soon.
Now all of that sounds like it should be obvious to me. However, it made me think that this is exactly where we are now. Already had massive change and now facing even more in an even shorter period and an immediate record of blatantly data driven recruitments that gave little if any weight to the people and the culture.
And we have the same architect at the helm. Hence my feeling that we really are in crisis. Money is not going to fix the issue we have IMO so financial health is not a reassurance to me.
Disagree, there can be chat about who, but we have to be decisive and if we can have a man in place before the Liverpool game and before the players continue their holiday(but actually on a beach) then that has to be a good thing.
Gives time for the new man to assess the squad, show the players what he is about and try and keep a core group ready for pre season.
There are a few players who I’m sure we would like to stay and they’re more likely to do that if they know who the management and coaching team will be and what their roles are likely to be next season