The argument/complete nonsense thread...

[Edelman]

Pubsec employees here get up to 27% contribution by employer, in other words us. But they will no doubt escape means testing on their pensions.
Without doubt we need to pay more in. Trouble is people want Harrods quality whilst paying Aldi prices in this country.

Yep I think that's right

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

Introduce Universal Basic Income and we get rid of all benefits and state pensions in one fell swoop.










Lights blue touch paper

Retires to a safe distance.

 

[Cityzen]

Introduce Universal Basic Income and we get rid of all benefits and state pensions in one fell swoop.










Lights blue touch paper

Retires to a safe distance.

And at what level do you think that should be?

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Because in theory with automaton, AI and advanced robotics, there shouldn't be the need for future generations to work as long, so they should get to enjoy a longer retirement whilst still relatively young. It shouldn't be that future generations work longer and longer into their 70s.. otherwise we're just cattle being farmed.

I'd be very happy if my children could work a 30 year career, pay off their homes and then have enough left over to do other things in life than work. But it's not going to happen.

Unless you've got a career that is your passion, work is a pain in the arse and a time suck. I'd rather be doing many other things than working, but needs be..

I'm no expert but I imagine with AI and advanced robotics there's a distinct possibility that the dole queues are going to get longer as job vacancies will be at a minimum.

And,yes,agreed...Work is in pain in the arse but for most of us it pays our bills(I'm not currently working and I am claiming 'contribution based' ESA,it's a benefit provided if you've paid enough N.I in the designated previous years) but I'm planning to go back,the sooner,the better as sitting around in the house is also a pain in the arse).

We have one of the highest retirement ages in Europe,in fact there are 4 or 5 countries dead-heating at 67.I don't see it coming down,it's more likely to rise.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Which some on here admire and applaud .

Names?

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Introduce Universal Basic Income and we get rid of all benefits and state pensions in one fell swoop.










Lights blue touch paper

Retires to a safe distance.

How much would that cost to implement as opposed to the current benefits bill?

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Nobody has a issue with supporting those genuinely incapable of work. It's the capable ones who refuse and never do or will do that is the issue

Spot on.

I don't have a single issue with those incapable of work either,I've got a problem with lazy bastards sitting around doing Jack sh!t and laughing at those out toiling for a living

 

[Newland Tiger]

Introduce Universal Basic Income and we get rid of all benefits and state pensions in one fell swoop.

Not sure how this would work when you consider housing costs

 

[originalminority]

How or why should our children or grandchildren be entitled to work 3 years less than us to enjoy a healthy and young retirement? The retirement age jumped from 65-67 for some of us,it jumped for a woman from 60-65-67 in some cases..Weren't we/them entitled to a healthy and young retirement?

It will rise to 68 for some soon and depending on finances there's every possibility it will rise further and yes,there's every chance it could rise to 70.

As much as I feel sorry for the next generation of pensioners(my own 4 kids included) and I'm not a selfish person,I'd be a tad p!ssed off if they were granted a 3 year reduction so they can enjoy a healthy/young retirement when their parents had to do the full sentence.

As an aside,I don't think the day is too far away when it will be means tested and you'll get naff all If you have a bank account over x amount.

I started work and paying tax and NI at 16 and get my state pension at 67, my children started work at 21 after graduation so I'm penalised more than them if they get a state pension younger than 72. Their battle is student debt not pension age.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

And at what level do you think that should be?

It should be at a reasonable level which is acceptable to all.

 

[originallambrettaman]

I'm no expert but I imagine with AI and advanced robotics there's a distinct possibility that the dole queues are going to get longer as job vacancies will be at a minimum.

And,yes,agreed...Work is in pain in the arse but for most of us it pays our bills(I'm not currently working and I am claiming 'contribution based' ESA,it's a benefit provided if you've paid enough N.I in the designated previous years) but I'm planning to go back,the sooner,the better as sitting around in the house is also a pain in the arse).

We have one of the highest retirement ages in Europe,in fact there are 4 or 5 countries dead-heating at 67.I don't see it coming down,it's more likely to rise.

It’s 67 in Denmark, Italy, Greece, and Cyprus, and is about to be in Spain, UK, Sweden and Germany, it will be pretty much everywhere soon (other than those lazy bastards in France, obvs).

 

[Ric Glasgow]

I started work and paying tax and NI at 16 and get my state pension at 67, my children started work at 21 after graduation so I'm penalised more than them if they get a state pension younger than 72. Their battle is student debt not pension age.

Thankfully none of mine have student debt,it's abhorrent.

Mine all left School at 16 and started work more of less straight away,in fact the eldest 'celebrated' 25 years of employment with HMRC last month.She'll probably be the only one who could afford to retire at a decent age with a decent pension(even though their pensions have been hit quite severely according to her).The other 3 haven't been as sensible and money burns a hole in their pockets,much to the annoyance of their Father...

 

[Cityzen]

It should be at a reasonable level which is acceptable to all.

It is not practical for myriad reasons. Though some would like it, lay in bed till dinner time then go do a bit of dealing or some guvvy jobs, maybe nick some phones to top it up.

 

[Plum]

Introduce Universal Basic Income and we get rid of all benefits and state pensions in one fell swoop.










Lights blue touch paper

Retires to a safe distance.

It's like communism, it'll never work. Ask Rand, he knows...

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[Cityzen]

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[Trumpton Tiger.]

I understand... Too late to change it now though. Mandatory private pensions via an employer is the saviour, but with many in part time and short job contracts, there's too many loopholes. My kids and your grandkids will most likely be working til 70, unless they start saving from early thirties - shouldve been the other way, working three years less than us and enjoying a relatively healthy and young retirement.

My grandmother got to retire from the post office at 57 in the 1970s, my age now nearly, and I can't afford to retire due to my (ex)wife getting ill and having to go part time instead. Don't know what the answer/solution is now... Increased debt, housing costs plus a need to save for pension.. it's a time bomb for the future.

Todays kids and grandkids will benefit from the inheritance when people of my generation pop our clogs. That's if we are lucky enough to escape being in a care home and having to sell our houses to fund it.
I know plenty of people younger then me who have benefitted massively from inheriting property and money from their departed parents, and good luck to them. Their parents earned it, unless you are from the landed gentry or royalty.
In my case my inheritance was zilch, as was my wife's, both having come from typical working class families in Hull. Our parents lived from week to week and if you didn't work life was a miserable existence. When I left school in 1970 I didn't know anyone who was out of work, and in my case, I was shocked when I found out, that 'dole money' was the nearly the same amount as I earned for going to work five days a week! My wage was £5 a week, dole was £4. But being 'on dole' was a stigma in those days, not a career choice as it seems to be today.
As for housing being cheaper in the 70's, 80's and 90's etc, of course it was, but wages were a lot lower too, and as for rents, private rents have always been higher than council rents.
In the mid 70's decent private rental in this area was at a premium. I remember going to see a potential rental on Watson Street in Sutton and people were queuing down the street to view. It was also a time of gazumping. That particular property went for way above the original asking price.
Before we got on the housing ladder we were paying £15 a week to rent a partly furnished flat down Park Avenue in Hull and we were lucky to get that, this was in 1974. The wife worked full time at Reckitts and earned £16 a week, that is a good measure how expensive the private rental market was. To get on the council house waiting list, which was far cheaper rent, there was a three year waiting list at least, if you qualified, and nothing was guaranteed. Mortgages were difficult to get too as you needed a 10% deposit at least and proof that you had saved with the building society you were borrowing from.
So buying houses may look a lot cheaper to younger people looking at old newspaper adds, compared to today, but the struggle to get one was as hard as it is for today's youngsters.

 

[Kalman II]

Todays kids and grandkids will benefit from the inheritance when people of my generation pop our clogs. That's if we are lucky enough to escape being in a care home and having to sell our houses to fund it.
I know plenty of people younger then me who have benefitted massively from inheriting property and money from their departed parents, and good luck to them. Their parents earned it, unless you are from the landed gentry or royalty.
In my case my inheritance was zilch, as was my wife's, both having come from typical working class families in Hull. Our parents lived from week to week and if you didn't work life was a miserable existence. When I left school in 1970 I didn't know anyone who was out of work, and in my case, I was shocked when I found out, that 'dole money' was the nearly the same amount as I earned for going to work five days a week! My wage was £5 a week, dole was £4. But being 'on dole' was a stigma in those days, not a career choice as it seems to be today.
As for housing being cheaper in the 70's, 80's and 90's etc, of course it was, but wages were a lot lower too, and as for rents, private rents have always been higher than council rents.
In the mid 70's decent private rental in this area was at a premium. I remember going to see a potential rental on Watson Street in Sutton and people were queuing down the street to view. It was also a time of gazumping. That particular property went for way above the original asking price.
Before we got on the housing ladder we were paying £15 a week to rent a partly furnished flat down Park Avenue in Hull and we were lucky to get that, this was in 1974. The wife worked full time at Reckitts and earned £16 a week, that is a good measure how expensive the private rental market was. To get on the council house waiting list, which was far cheaper rent, there was a three year waiting list at least, if you qualified, and nothing was guaranteed. Mortgages were difficult to get too as you needed a 10% deposit at least and proof that you had saved with the building society you were borrowing from.
So buying houses may look a lot cheaper to younger people looking at old newspaper adds, compared to today, but the struggle to get one was as hard as it is for today's youngsters.

Most mortgages today still require 10% for a deposit. Some government schemes to help first-time buyers had 5% deposits but it’s not the norm.

 

[Edelman]

Todays kids and grandkids will benefit from the inheritance when people of my generation pop our clogs. That's if we are lucky enough to escape being in a care home and having to sell our houses to fund it.
I know plenty of people younger then me who have benefitted massively from inheriting property and money from their departed parents, and good luck to them. Their parents earned it, unless you are from the landed gentry or royalty.
In my case my inheritance was zilch, as was my wife's, both having come from typical working class families in Hull. Our parents lived from week to week and if you didn't work life was a miserable existence. When I left school in 1970 I didn't know anyone who was out of work, and in my case, I was shocked when I found out, that 'dole money' was the nearly the same amount as I earned for going to work five days a week! My wage was £5 a week, dole was £4. But being 'on dole' was a stigma in those days, not a career choice as it seems to be today.
As for housing being cheaper in the 70's, 80's and 90's etc, of course it was, but wages were a lot lower too, and as for rents, private rents have always been higher than council rents.
In the mid 70's decent private rental in this area was at a premium. I remember going to see a potential rental on Watson Street in Sutton and people were queuing down the street to view. It was also a time of gazumping. That particular property went for way above the original asking price.
Before we got on the housing ladder we were paying £15 a week to rent a partly furnished flat down Park Avenue in Hull and we were lucky to get that, this was in 1974. The wife worked full time at Reckitts and earned £16 a week, that is a good measure how expensive the private rental market was. To get on the council house waiting list, which was far cheaper rent, there was a three year waiting list at least, if you qualified, and nothing was guaranteed. Mortgages were difficult to get too as you needed a 10% deposit at least and proof that you had saved with the building society you were borrowing from.
So buying houses may look a lot cheaper to younger people looking at old newspaper adds, compared to today, but the struggle to get one was as hard as it is for today's youngsters.

Houses today are at a lot higher multiple to average wage than in 1975

 

[springtiger]

How is AI and automation going to give people money to retire early ?
Many companies pay about 3% here in pension contributions especially small family owned ones . If I wanted a job now I’d look straight to govt , NHS or the blue chip companies to look after my later years - or marry a nurse , teacher and at one time a bank employee - failed on all counts - went for love LOL. Not money !

 

[Heimdallr]

How is AI and automation going to give people money to retire early ?
Many companies pay about 3% here in pension contributions especially small family owned ones . If I wanted a job now I’d look straight to govt , NHS or the blue chip companies to look after my later years - or marry a nurse , teacher and at one time a bank employee - failed on all counts - went for love LOL. Not money !

The theory should be that it renders a 'whole' adult life of work unnecessary, with many jobs completed by Skynet. but it won't obviously as new opportunities/penalties will open up.

I'd have happily retired at 50 and handed my job over to someone or something else after 30 years of work, if I had the money to do so, and embarked on a second part time career, whilst using most of my time to travel, do sports, hike, work on my farm/house. I get a reducing satisfaction from employment and it's neither my passion or my calling - I'm just working to support my family and reduce the debt that my kids will be forced to take on. Don't hate it, neither do i enjoy it really.