The argument/complete nonsense thread...
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NI is not just for pensions. The agreement was in 1948 those working paid in and those entitled to to draw them got paid. As i wrote in another post, it was short sighted and took no account of how things would change. One which built up a fund would have been better in the long term. Giving pension credit to those who have not contributed enough years which can make them better off than those who have paid in for the full number of years is a bad idea as well.
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I understand... Too late to change it now though. Mandatory private pensions via an employer is the saviour, but with many in part time and short job contracts, there's too many loopholes. My kids and your grandkids will most likely be working til 70, unless they start saving from early thirties - shouldve been the other way, working three years less than us and enjoying a relatively healthy and young retirement.
My grandmother got to retire from the post office at 57 in the 1970s, my age now nearly, and I can't afford to retire due to my (ex)wife getting ill and having to go part time instead. Don't know what the answer/solution is now... Increased debt, housing costs plus a need to save for pension.. it's a time bomb for the future.
It's not going to happen has cutting the cloth accordingly ain't something I lot will want to do
Odd how end off (sic) seldom is. That is all. 
The views expressed in this post are 67% recycled.
The views expressed in this post are 67% recycled.
Sort of almost entirely agree but there are a good number of people making money of other people’s money with no intention of influencing any kind of social good or employment . On the other hand your millions in the stock market or banks allows those who have that aim to borrow and fund entrepreneurship . I’m afraid the latter are probably reducing in numbers because they’ve got lazy and v risk averse .
Hang on, do you mean that those holding stocks/shares are lazy scroungers with a sense of entitlement expecting to be funded by those ppl that graft?
Not sure savings helps banks lend more money to entrepreneurs due to the fractional banking system - banks lend out way more than the cash deposits they hold, backed by the housing they effectively own via mortgages.
The problem there is the workforce is shrinking and the ones who can’t or won’t work is increasing then you take in up to 10 million people the great majority of whom will not earn enough to provide a surplus of tax/ ni to the govt to help , never mind for when they get old . We have too many greedy employers who won’t pay a fair wage ‘because others don’t’ . We had apprentices , labours , semi skilled labourers , office juniors , fully skilled people all were paid different rates based on skill , age , role etc it all made sense . Now unless you are visibly ‘skilled or qualified’ they pay the basic living wage that cleaners get - saw an ad for a local v successful air con company wanted and administrator who’s duties were endless and I’d call semi skilled - paid a cleaners wage - why bother you might as well empty bins and polish tables .
How or why should our children or grandchildren be entitled to work 3 years less than us to enjoy a healthy and young retirement? The retirement age jumped from 65-67 for some of us,it jumped for a woman from 60-65-67 in some cases..Weren't we/them entitled to a healthy and young retirement?
It will rise to 68 for some soon and depending on finances there's every possibility it will rise further and yes,there's every chance it could rise to 70.
As much as I feel sorry for the next generation of pensioners(my own 4 kids included) and I'm not a selfish person,I'd be a tad p!ssed off if they were granted a 3 year reduction so they can enjoy a healthy/young retirement when their parents had to do the full sentence.
As an aside,I don't think the day is too far away when it will be means tested and you'll get naff all If you have a bank account over x amount.
You miss my point , I didn’t say they were scroungers I said that money invested by them makes money as investments do . If they have millions they will make more millions because the opportunities are there to do it without any social dimension . Eg the power companies are making a fortune off customer money because they’ve conned a lot of people to pay up front - that level of continuous cash flow allows for re investment elsewhere - GEC were doing this in the 70’s . They will have a fixed level of income like a footie club would like that enables re investment . The stock exchange was originally created to enable diverse investment for anyone with a perceived good idea , railways , shipping etc , mills .
So only investing your money into stocks and shares doesn’t guarantee you have any kind of positive effect on the economy and the state of the nation . I have a close relative who has annually turned over many millions for over 12 years and employs over 50 people in a manufacturing business , he’s never taken money out of any note , nor sold it off for a quick buck and a place in Nassau - he’s down South but as a Northerner has retained an obligation to keep those people employed amongst other motivations . Neither various govts or scientific British institutions have been motivated to buy British - the products are sold everywhere all over the world with no support from the UK .
We need a Chinese approach to the future , short term , long and very long but that’s easy in a one party state- they are showing that two party politics is now , due to a fast changing world economy , too volatile and not in the country’s economic interest .
Because in theory with automaton, AI and advanced robotics, there shouldn't be the need for future generations to work as long, so they should get to enjoy a longer retirement whilst still relatively young. It shouldn't be that future generations work longer and longer into their 70s.. otherwise we're just cattle being farmed.
I'd be very happy if my children could work a 30 year career, pay off their homes and then have enough left over to do other things in life than work. But it's not going to happen.
Unless you've got a career that is your passion, work is a pain in the arse and a time suck. I'd rather be doing many other things than working, but needs be..
Nobody has a issue with supporting those genuinely incapable of work. It's the capable ones who refuse and never do or will do that is the issue
But what jobs are they all going to do ?
This is before the inevitable increase in Ai and robotics .
And apart from what 2 or 3 of us have discussed there's a solution to the pension problem but it would take decades to come through .
Means tested pensions .
You pay 12% in there as does your company so 24% in total .
Here it's 5% plus 3 % from your employer and it's not compulsory plus there's an exemption of the first £6,000 so it barely scrapes 7% in total .
In Germany it's mandatory at nearly 19% split between employee and employer .
Pubsec employees here get up to 27% contribution by employer, in other words us. But they will no doubt escape means testing on their pensions.
Without doubt we need to pay more in. Trouble is people want Harrods quality whilst paying Aldi prices in this country.
Any reduction in work requirements generated by AI will not benefit society. It will only benefit the mega-rich who can increase profit and accumulate more wealth.