Sadly i have been in this camp for quite a while. Swiss Tony for a much vaunted businessman is pretty blinded where QPR are concerned. God forbid we get relegated. The consequences will fully be on his watch
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Sadly i have been in this camp for quite a while. Swiss Tony for a much vaunted businessman is pretty blinded where QPR are concerned. God forbid we get relegated. The consequences will fully be on his watch
And you can see his out already can't you - those fans didn't want me or trust me enough to buy into my plan. It was them that failed not me.
He loses feck all in this, he has a 33% stake of a 66% holding - his profile has risen stratospherically and he has as hot at a wonderful real estate jackpot.
Not quite fair, that leaves him 20% of the £177m (minimum, he'll have put more in since then) out of pocket. His stake is worthless, because the club is worthless. Every time they walk on the pitch the players' value decreases and the assets won't be worth the debt.
There is something wrong with the whole set up though and it increasingly looks like he is a part of the problem. He certainly can't pick a manager.
Once again, your answer is a riddle. I've asked the question in good faith. My apologies if you've misconstrued this as thinking that I have some authority over this issue. I don't. Me being a Mod doesn't have anything to do with it either. I'm quite surprised that you'd think it would. When have I ever purported to having a greater insight into the club and it's workings than anyone else on here?
I only ask because I like TF and I see quite a few people slating him but offer no pertinent reason as to why. I'm wondering if I'm missing something here. If you or anyone else can make a good case against Fernandes I may well be enlightened and tend to agree with you.
Got an early start so I can't really get into this tonight. But my case against Teflon Tone is as I stated on another thread a few weeks back, copied and pasted below.
Great OP. It needs to be talked about again and again. Not how we're gonna "get away" with FFP but how we got here in the first place. And where we go now.
A training ground at the back of a wardrobe in a remote country house.
New stadium? Second star to the right and straight on till morning.
Finances?
Going on for a quarter of a billion in debt. Last accounts we were £177.1 million in the red. Add the latest forecast and it's £240 million+ . Not so log ago I got castigated on here by a business "expert" for stating this. Apologies welcome. Well now it's real and doesn't include the projected £40 million fine for broaching FFP. Or the potential legal costs. Or any current losses. Third of a billion anyone? This, after 2 out of 3 years in the most lucrative league in world football.
2012 Operating loss: 25.7 million
2013 Operating loss: 65 million (Teflon Tone's first year at the helm)
2014 Operating loss: Not out yet but it ain't gonna be pretty.
2012 Total debt : 56.1 million.
2013 Total debt: 177.1 million (Teflon Tone's first year at the helm)
2014 Total debt: 240 million +
2011/11 Transfer fees: 1.5 million
2011/12 Transfer fees: 22.8 million (Teflon Tone's first year at the helm)
2012/13 Transfer fees: 36.05 million
2010/11 Agent fees: We're nowhere.
2010/11 Agent fees: 2.5 million
2011/12 Agent fees: 6.8 million (only Citeh and Liverpool are shelling out more. And - just a wild guess here - I'd bet it weren't on gates of 18,000. Maybe I'm wrong. Me not being a businessman or accountant an' all.)
And wages? OMG We do those too! We've outspent two of the last Champions League finalists. So we must be good right?
I wouldn't hold my breath for a bright young manager with fresh ideas. Global branding neccesitates a "name". Someone who's already there. Doesn't fit our philosophy such as it is. If Redknapp goes it'll be Hoddle. I'd go with that tbf, but it's no substitute for a long-term strategy.
Training grounds? Well some good news. Teflon Tone, in June 2011, just before we were lucky enough to have him land at our door:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/13620939
Teflon Tone 3 Years later:
http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/qpr/q..._new_training_ground_at_warren_farm_1_3690155
He really ain't making it up as he goes along. Honest.
We're very fortunate to have him.
A training ground at the back of a wardrobe in a remote country house.
New stadium? Second star to the right and straight on till morning.
Finances?
Going on for a quarter of a billion in debt. Last accounts we were £177.1 million in the red. Add the latest forecast and it's £240 million+ . Not so log ago I got castigated on here by a business "expert" for stating this. Apologies welcome. Well now it's real and doesn't include the projected £40 million fine for broaching FFP. Or the potential legal costs. Or any current losses. Third of a billion anyone? This, after 2 out of 3 years in the most lucrative league in world football.
2012 Operating loss: 25.7 million
2013 Operating loss: 65 million (Teflon Tone's first year at the helm)
2014 Operating loss: Not out yet but it ain't gonna be pretty.
2012 Total debt : 56.1 million.
2013 Total debt: 177.1 million (Teflon Tone's first year at the helm)
2014 Total debt: 240 million +
2011/11 Transfer fees: 1.5 million
2011/12 Transfer fees: 22.8 million (Teflon Tone's first year at the helm)
2012/13 Transfer fees: 36.05 million
2010/11 Agent fees: We're nowhere.
2010/11 Agent fees: 2.5 million
2011/12 Agent fees: 6.8 million (only Citeh and Liverpool are shelling out more. And - just a wild guess here - I'd bet it weren't on gates of 18,000. Maybe I'm wrong. Me not being a businessman or accountant an' all.)
And wages? OMG We do those too! We've outspent two of the last Champions League finalists. So we must be good right?
I wouldn't hold my breath for a bright young manager with fresh ideas. Global branding neccesitates a "name". Someone who's already there. Doesn't fit our philosophy such as it is. If Redknapp goes it'll be Hoddle. I'd go with that tbf, but it's no substitute for a long-term strategy.
Training grounds? Well some good news. Teflon Tone, in June 2011, just before we were lucky enough to have him land at our door:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/13620939
Teflon Tone 3 Years later:
http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/qpr/q..._new_training_ground_at_warren_farm_1_3690155
He really ain't making it up as he goes along. Honest.
We're very fortunate to have him.
Thanks for your efforts Telford. At least you've taken some time to lay out what the heck is going on with TF and our club.
However, this is the bit I still don't get. Why is TF still the bogeyman?
If you removed the FFP bit, which has still to be upheld. Would this still be the case?
However, this is the bit I still don't get. Why is TF still the bogeyman?
If you removed the FFP bit, which has still to be upheld. Would this still be the case?
I've been joking with a friend for a while now about Kevin Bond and his notepad. Whenever we make a sub, he's stood there instructing the player and pointing to his paper but the players never look at it. They're not even listening to him. Then today in injury time the camera goes to our bench and he's rolling up his papers and fixing his pencil.
Keep an eye on him next time. He looks nearly as bad as McClaren did with his Brolly. Totally aloof from reality
I just hope this final tweet is to appease the players. No mention of the Management hopefully that means a quick fast decision on Pulis starting working on Wednesday this week. Sadly I am will prove to be wrong. TF needs to act now , not sit on another 2-3 games. Players not interested and certainly not the Manager
Not too much of this type of man management seems to happen for our substitutions.
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and we rarely see anyone in the technical area urging the team on, barking out instructions to hold their shape etc.
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HR HAS to GO in the next day or so , with all the other cronies in the Coaching set up , clean sweep now and get in Pullis , a motivator that will kick some backsides with pleasure when they don't get their act together. Get Taarabt in the side and free his role with a feeder into Austin
westlondonlalala
Well-Known Member
westlondonlalala
Well-Known Member
In most sports, individuals and teams train like they play. If this is true, then our training sessions must be boring as hell. Our team should reflect our manager.....................wait I've just realised they do.
I'd take Pulis now. His teams may be mechanical and robotic but you know what you get EVERY game, stability, effort, high tempo and high work rate.
I'd take Pulis now. His teams may be mechanical and robotic but you know what you get EVERY game, stability, effort, high tempo and high work rate.
It's a tricky one Nines. I have been a big supporter of TF and still believe that he is trying his best and genuinely cares. I don't get the personal dislike that Danish, Imaz, Rhino and Telford have.
But the fact is he has been mugged on the football side time and time again, he has trusted 'football people' who have no interest in anything but themselves, and certainly not the mid/long term future of the club. He has put his money where his mouth is, and I, as a fan, would have probably made all the same mistakes if I had the money. Off the pitch we have the grand plans and no delivery. Slightly unfair because capital projects take time, but he has created a rod for his own back by constantly communicating about things which take a glacial amount of time to deliver.
For me the two biggest mistakes have been the training ground - and more specifically not getting our Academy to the top level in 3 years, something he was committed to and something which is critical to the future of a club like ours; and not getting rid of Redknapp in May 2012, appointing a younger manager with a plan, taking the hit and admitting we may have spent 3 seasons (or more) in the championship trying to build something durable with a spirit and identity, on sound finances. I completely understand the desperation to get back to the Prem as soon as possible, but it has just embedded the financial whirlpool we are trapped in.
He doesn't deserve the dire and spineless football he has been rewarded with. If he and the other investors pull out I can only pray that they hold their hands up, write off the debt and leave us enough to pay any FFP legacy. I don't think they will go, but we really need to calm this down, and spend some time reflecting on what type of club we are and what that means to the way we are run. For example, I don't think there is a hope in hell that we can fill a 40,000 stadium, even in the Prem with cheap seats. But we do need 15 acres for a new stadium, and that shouldn't be tied to getting another 830 acres for a property development.
As we stand our footballing future (for the next 3-5 years) is tied to a bunch of bought in, young(ish) players - Fer, Mutch, Phillips, Austin, Hoilett, Caulker, McCarthy. I've seen enough of Traore and Onuoha (who is no longer young anyway) not to even hope of much more from them. They have to deliver on the pitch, either to keep us up, or to enhance their own reputations so we can sell them for profit.
And please, if we are adrift at January, let's not throw more money at it. In fact, I'm tempted to give Redknapp until then, painful as it will be, dump him before he throws any more cash away, get the next generation in (lets take a risk, Paul Clement) do not ask them to keep us up, but just gain some Prem experience as they start renewing the football side from the ground up.
I think there are problems from top to bottom.
We need a football philosophy running through the club from academy to staff to players. Other clubs change managers and players and their success continues, Swansea, Southampton etc. We have had two decent managers and many many new players and still continue to struggle.
We haven't learnt lessons and although the players bought in are young and have ability 3 of them are on loan and 3 were signed from relegated teams, whats to say they won't leave if we are relegated too, leaving us back at square one again.
We need a football philosophy running through the club from academy to staff to players. Other clubs change managers and players and their success continues, Swansea, Southampton etc. We have had two decent managers and many many new players and still continue to struggle.
We haven't learnt lessons and although the players bought in are young and have ability 3 of them are on loan and 3 were signed from relegated teams, whats to say they won't leave if we are relegated too, leaving us back at square one again.
A short note on my standing on TF & HR.
1) I still have no idea if I am pro or anti TF. I will always love him for ridding us of the terrible threesome, but I do feel that it is valid to ask what his reasons were for doing so.
There is a very good case for arguing that we were purchased for business reasons rather than for running a fotball club. It is very possible the promotion of the Tune Group etc. was the long term gain of ownwership of Queens Park Rangers. If Old Oak goes ahead under their proposals, the financial gain would dwarf the losses on the football side.
This is where I'm undecided. Is this good for the future & the stability of my club?
2) HR! This problem goes back to appointing him as a replacment to Hughes. The Premier should have been written off at that point & the job given to a manager with long term aims.
I would be very happy for TF to sack HR, KB, JJ & GH today but PLEASE don't immediately replace then by quickly hiring Pulis, Moyes or anybody else for the short term.
Take your time & then commit to a manager that will build for the future. After all, placing the team in the hands of Clint Hill or ANO for a couple of months stands more chance of working than having HR in charge!
1) I still have no idea if I am pro or anti TF. I will always love him for ridding us of the terrible threesome, but I do feel that it is valid to ask what his reasons were for doing so.
There is a very good case for arguing that we were purchased for business reasons rather than for running a fotball club. It is very possible the promotion of the Tune Group etc. was the long term gain of ownwership of Queens Park Rangers. If Old Oak goes ahead under their proposals, the financial gain would dwarf the losses on the football side.
This is where I'm undecided. Is this good for the future & the stability of my club?
2) HR! This problem goes back to appointing him as a replacment to Hughes. The Premier should have been written off at that point & the job given to a manager with long term aims.
I would be very happy for TF to sack HR, KB, JJ & GH today but PLEASE don't immediately replace then by quickly hiring Pulis, Moyes or anybody else for the short term.
Take your time & then commit to a manager that will build for the future. After all, placing the team in the hands of Clint Hill or ANO for a couple of months stands more chance of working than having HR in charge!
that's a good post terry. a middle of the road option could be to bring someone (Pullis or ANO) in on a deal until next may, whilst the Board deliberate on a long term plan.
Absolutely, good post. I'd love to see a manager come in and envisage seeing him in the job for the next five/ten years. Trouble is, that is so rare in this day and age. Young managers on the way up are likely to be poached by bigger clubs. Hiring someone on a temporary basis would be a good way to try and improve now, and start a search for the right man to really take us forward in the years to come.