Summer window

[Smug in Boots]

Yes but I'm not just talking about his goals return, he still scored 26 that season and 10 in 13 games last season, it's his overall game, his contribution to the team.

I'm not denying that mate, he's been a great player.

What I'm saying is that he vanished at a critical time and, from memory, failed to score against the likes of Lincoln, Gillingham, Crewe, Fleetwood, etc. I may be wrong but iirc most of his goals, in the last quarter of the season, were penalties.

He's now had a serious career threatening injury which may restrict him physically and mentally. So I can understand the club's reluctance to boost his wages and extend his contract.

We know better than anyone how fit he is and how he's training ...

... anyone buying him is taking a flier to put it bluntly.

 

[gillmackem]

Been a massive Sunderland fan for years, used to go to Roker Park.

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Yes cos look who he trusted.

Morning Bob , I would think a good few let Ellis down and the club paid the price with back to back relegation and then a couple of chancers in charge.
Methven or Donald made the comment "the piss taking party stops here" it didn't.
But in my opinion it does with KLD and speakman ,I don't know what happens behind the scenes, but I don't think any players come here and get a free ride like in the past,paying vastly inflated wages to mercenaries,practically begging players to come , held to ransome by agents.
Kld ,speakman won't get everything right
But everything about the club has improved and will continue to do so.
It isn't an easy road back(i don't want it to be) let's earn it and be self sufficient
We will appreciate it more.
Too many quick fixes in the past(drummaville, short etc) throw money at it, look at where we were 1st division for 4 seasons
I think the clubs gaining respect in the football word and that's down to management beginning at the top
KTF

 

[Wayne the Punk]

My concern is that if he is sold 'subject to a medical' when his injury is likely to be very complex, we could be in a position where the club are gambling on him being sold (in which case we may end up with too many on the books), or being reticent about signing a replacement knowing it could fall through.

Hopefully - if he is likely to leave - the medical is taking place with plenty of time before the deadline

Unless of course his trip to London a few weeks back was to get his injury examined by a indipendant expert

 

[flandersmackem]

I love the model the club had adopted. its a blue print for the future. However, any business plan "Model" has at its heart a certain amount of flexibility, in Sunderland's case, that could mean, wages/age/transfer fee etc etc I'm not talking about completely blowing out the water the fundamental principals of the original model, but for any business to experience exponential growth or progress a certain amount of scope has to be written in the plan for the unseen/unexpected (In football that would be unforeseen injuries or players who leave) and that means flexibility...not to disregard the plan, but to get where you want to be a solid business plan will have that at its heart.... we will see in the 36 hours how much flexibility we have in our plan.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Yes but I'm not just talking about his goals return, he still scored 26 that season and 10 in 13 games last season, it's his overall game, his contribution to the team.
We'll be hard pushed to replace all that, imo.

Hard pushed yes but not impossible, it’s Ross Stewart not Ronaldo Stewart.. I would love him to stay he’s one of the best strikers in the division but it’s a decent fee for someone that’s had 2 bad injuries, never played above this level and is 27.

27 obviously isn’t retirement age by any means but even without the injuries how much does a striker really improve beyond that age when he’s still at this level? Especially a striker who plays like Stewart and needs his pace. Someone mentioned Maupay being ****e the other day - he scored 25 goals in the championship for Brentford when he was 22 so that’s the level of comparison.

It’s a gamble on whether we want to push for promotion this season and lose him for nothing or go with the safer option and bank the money whilst getting someone else in, strengthening the squad in the long run.

 

[TopCat.]

Stewart hasn’t gone yet and you don’t know how much we got for lihadji.

Thanks for that, Captain Obvious

 

[Smug in Boots]

I love the model the club had adopted. its a blue print for the future. However, any business plan "Model" has at its heart a certain amount of flexibility, in Sunderland's case, that could mean, wages/age/transfer fee etc etc I'm not talking about completely blowing out the water the fundamental principals of the original model, but for any business to experience exponential growth or progress a certain amount of scope has to be written in the plan for the unseen/unexpected (In football that would be unforeseen injuries or players who leave) and that means flexibility...not to disregard the plan, but to get where you want to be a solid business plan will have that at its heart.... we will see in the 36 hours how much flexibility we have in our plan.

" ... we will see in the 36 hours how much flexibility we have in our plan."

Not being difficult but I have to ask a couple of questions.

How will we see how flexible we've been and ...

... what exactly is our plan.

I really have no idea.

 

[Monkey69]

I trust the club and I take your points re recruitment etc, but if we fail to replace Stewart that will be 3 transfer windows in a row where we've left ourselves short in the squad.
Building for the future is all well and good, but the here and now is just as important. Sustainability is an excellent model, but not when you don't use the money you've earned

£2m for Lihadji
£8m for Stewart

Surely that has to grease the wheels to get in a couple of players capable of hitting the ground running?

I'm a KS/LD supporter, but a lot of people might turn if we are playing Dack/Jobe up front v QPR

I take it you don't think the 2 signings we have made are good enough even though we have only seen a couple of games from Hemir and not seen Mayenda at all. I think they are young lads who will need a little bit of time to adjust and we need to give them time. as for a striker who can hit the ground running I cant remember many over the years who can do that most will need time to adjust. As a squad we are stronger than last year up front we have more numbers for cover but I agree if Stewart is sold then having extra cover is needed. It is also worth remembering that a lot of deals fall through on deadline day and at the minute Ross is still our player but that could change in the next 10 minutes we as fans don't really know.

 

[Young Ted]

I don’t believe the club are sitting on there backsides doing nothing,they’ll have known what was happening with Stewart in advance so here’s hoping things start to fall into place soon

 

[Monkey69]

Funnily enough, had Ellis had Speakman I’d wager things would have been very different.

I don’t want anyone ‘bankrolling’ the club, to rely on a single stream can bite your arse, Drumaville we’re actually great owners then the property market crashes and they had to bail.

We have a big enough fan base to make money, we have League 1 commercial deals ending, so the next year or 2 I u sweat and we remain a wee bit handicapped without selling.

When folk are having a pop they simply do not give enough credit to the owners and their advisory employees for retaining Jacky, Roberts, Cirkin, Ballard, Patto and Trai, plus more, who we could easily sold for profit.

Vision and long term planning. Was not that long ago our fans were crying out for this and now we have it they start shouting about the here and now and how our owners are tight fisted makes you laugh at times

 

[Smug in Boots]

I take it you don't think the 2 signings we have made are good enough even though we have only seen a couple of games from Hemir and not seen Mayenda at all. I think they are young lads who will need a little bit of time to adjust and we need to give them time. as for a striker who can hit the ground running I cant remember many over the years who can do that most will need time to adjust. As a squad we are stronger than last year up front we have more numbers for cover but I agree if Stewart is sold then having extra cover is needed. It is also worth remembering that a lot of deals fall through on deadline day and at the minute Ross is still our player but that could change in the next 10 minutes we as fans don't really know.

I'd need a substantial increase to consider moving the entire length of the country, and further from 'home' ...

... Southampton aren't in a position to offer a highly paid long-term contract that’s way better than what we can offer.

Southampton need a striker and, at this late stage of the window, haven't done the business, much like us you might say

We'll see.

 

[rooch 3]

Bit harsh that imo. Stewart is a quality player. Not just his goalscoring record, which can't be argued with tbh, it's his overall contribution to the team, his workrate, hold up play, hes also a massive asset in our own box when we're defending set pieces. Easy to be critical when it looks like somebody might be leaving. We'll find it very hard, imo, to replace all of that. I know folk will say well we did ok without him last season but I reckon if he'd have stayed fit for the whole season we'd have been in the premier league now.

Lucky he didn’t then.

 

[rooch 3]

I trust the club and I take your points re recruitment etc, but if we fail to replace Stewart that will be 3 transfer windows in a row where we've left ourselves short in the squad.
Building for the future is all well and good, but the here and now is just as important. Sustainability is an excellent model, but not when you don't use the money you've earned

£2m for Lihadji
£8m for Stewart

Surely that has to grease the wheels to get in a couple of players capable of hitting the ground running?

I'm a KS/LD supporter, but a lot of people might turn if we are playing Dack/Jobe up front v QPR

Have you just made those figures up?

 

[flandersmackem]

" ... we will see in the 36 hours how much flexibility we have in our plan."

Not being difficult but I have to ask a couple of questions.

How will we see how flexible we've been and ...

... what exactly is our plan.

I really have no idea.

Smug to be fair, you have lauded the way the club has been run since the new owner came in, so for you to say 'I have no idea" is a very strange statement for someone in total support of the steps KLD is taking... But from my observation and IMO Buy young, build up, sell at a profit. Mowbray has pretty much quoted this ad nauseam. Its clear how the club has laid its out its plan for the future, anyone with an ounce of business acumen can see that...i'm pretty sure you can as well. I am not saying anything contentious with this post.
As for how we will see...I said a week or so ago, at the end of every transfer window, a squad should be in better shape than it was at the beginning... I'm not prejudging...but lets see.
..but as has been the trend on this forum of late, it was inevitable that it get some descending voices...hence the highlighted "Not being difficult"

 

[FellTop]

My concern is that if he is sold 'subject to a medical' when his injury is likely to be very complex, we could be in a position where the club are gambling on him being sold (in which case we may end up with too many on the books), or being reticent about signing a replacement knowing it could fall through.

Hopefully - if he is likely to leave - the medical is taking place with plenty of time before the deadline

I would imagine we have done a medical on the injury in our own way. Everyone will have a clear idea on how it is looking and I suspect Southampton know if they are bidding. You would imagine there are scans and and physio reports etc in place to allow him back training. Might be wrong but doubt he fails a medical.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Smug to be fair, you have lauded the way the club has been run since the new owner came in, so for you to say 'I have no idea" is a very strange statement for someone in total support of the steps KLD is taking... But from my observation and IMO Buy young, build up, sell at a profit. Mowbray has pretty much quoted this ad nauseam. Its clear how the club has laid its out its plan for the future, anyone with an ounce of business acumen can see that...i'm pretty sure you can as well. I am not saying anything contentious with this post.
As for how we will see...I said a week or so ago, at the end of every transfer window, a squad should be in better shape than it was at the beginning... I'm not prejudging...but lets see.
..but as has been the trend on this forum of late, it was inevitable that it get some descending voices...hence the highlighted "Not being difficult"

Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain myself too clearly.

What I mean is that we know the concept but not the details.

If we don't know the exact boundaries on fees, wages, etc, how can we know if we've been flexible and exceeded them?

 

[TopCat.]

I take it you don't think the 2 signings we have made are good enough even though we have only seen a couple of games from Hemir and not seen Mayenda at all. I think they are young lads who will need a little bit of time to adjust and we need to give them time. as for a striker who can hit the ground running I cant remember many over the years who can do that most will need time to adjust. As a squad we are stronger than last year up front we have more numbers for cover but I agree if Stewart is sold then having extra cover is needed. It is also worth remembering that a lot of deals fall through on deadline day and at the minute Ross is still our player but that could change in the next 10 minutes we as fans don't really know.

We have an 18yo with a handful of games in French 3rd Division and a 20yo who currently looks miles off being fit enough to lead the line in the championship - I think it's a massive ask to expect them to make an impact this season.

Not saying they can't or won't come good, but surely they would be 3rd and 4th choice at a club like ours behind 2 experienced strikers where they can learn about the division and the English game without the pressure to perform.

The fact Hemir started the 1st game of the season and has barely been seen since tells a tale....

 

[TopCat.]

Have you just made those figures up?

Illustrative purposes. There are various reports of Lihadji going for £2-4m. We've apparently turned down £7m for Stewart, so using likely figures to make a point

Put it this way - we won't sell LiHadji and Stewart for a combined £1m will we?

 

[flandersmackem]

Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain myself too clearly.

What I mean is that we know the concept but not the details.

If we don't know the exact boundaries on fees, wages, etc, how can we know if we've been flexible and exceeded them?

Thats a very good point....in my defence I am surmising as to our plan has little room for manoeuvre ....but I may be way out and probably am... Let just hope we all get the players we need to move forward

 

[kingkeane]

Simple way of looking at it all

Our new approach has seen investment but into infrastructure, staffing and data analytics. Player recruitment has seen some too.

However, the one that some are making reference to is the olden days, big fees, for ready made players with hefty agent surcharges.

The latter approach is a thing of the past and some won't be able to accept it as they are familiar with the former approach.

We have moved on. For the better.

I think many are willing to accept the new approach, others wont' be. For me they massively have to improve 'off the pitch''. A lot of that has been unacceptable. Hopefully they will address all the issues.