Summer '24 transfer window

[FellTop]

I think selling a player for a big fee would help so much with this.

Yes mate, definitely. Also perhaps saying no to a deal when it presents itself if it is not needed. I didnt really understand why we did the Hjelde deal last winter. It didnt look like a player we needed in the short or medium term to me, and it cost precious tfr money.

 

[alcoauth]

Not in our new system, for me anyway. Huggins would be the only one who could give us that quality option of joinging the wide triangle with Browne and Roberts. I might be proven wrong on Seelt, but he looks an out and out CB to me. Johnson the same.

That's the coaches job. To get the player in question to the level necessary to function within his system. Speakman would see it as a coaching fail if RLB were to say Seelt/Johnson isn't capable of playing in his second position.

 

[Brainy Dose]

Yes mate, definitely. Also perhaps saying no to a deal when it presents itself if it is not needed. I didnt really understand why we did the Hjelde deal last winter. It didnt look like a player we needed in the short or medium term to me, and it cost precious tfr money.

I think it was doubts over fitness issues with Cirkin and Aji.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

What did we miss?

Something about Joplings, a window and arses.




Actually I have no idea.

 

[Frazier the Lion]

If we were to sign a right back this month, is that issue we have in the wing position not going to be the same at right back next summer? Next summer we'd have Hume, Huggins, Pembele and a new signing.

We definitely need to sign a fullback I just worry that we'll struggle to sign one good enough to play in the championship if they know they are backup.

Yep. We also have academy players at the club already too. More fullbacks means more in the way of Bainbridge and Lavery in future seasons. Getting players minutes is really tough. I’d argue it’s even tougher in defence where rotation is just not gonna happen.

 

[alcoauth]

I think it was doubts over fitness issues with Cirkin and Aji.

This. At one point we were playing Hume at LB, Hjelde came in shortly after, he will still come good imo, just needs time and coaching. He cost us £1m upfront with 500k on the backend. Not a bad deal for someone that young and with such a good pedigree.

 

[CR17]

Stockport reserves no less. They made 10 changes.

fairs but I was more commenting on how he moves not really the opposition he was playing against

 

[FellTop]

That's the coaches job. To get the player in question to the level necessary to function within his system. Speakman would see it as a coaching fail if RLB were to say Seelt/Johnsin isn't capable of playing in his second position.

I dont buy into the idea of a second position particularly. You can have flexibility in players for sure, so somebody like Huggins can play left or right. Rigg can probably play left side or right side 8. Huggins is a full back though, not a CB. Generally though the role of the utility player, as it once was, isnt the way forward anymore. I see the likes of Milner as the end of that sort of squad role.

Coaches, generally have a little amount of time with players once pre season is done. Expecting RLB to be able to coach Seelt to be a top class CB and a good forward thinking right back is unreasonable. There is no time. The role of the CB is very very specific in modern football. A huge amount of technical detail goes into how to play it. A defensively solid full back like Hume could slot into a back 3. A defensively sound CB doesnt translate well to a forward thinking full back. At our level anyway. Elite elite players like Maldini or Lahm can make it look easy, but that isnt down to coaching, that is down to huge talent and experience.

The further up the pitch you go flexibility is easier to create, and trust. Trust being key. A player like Mundle, for example could be effective in a couple of positions. Indeed you could play a fluid front 3 if the players are talented enough. But the reality is defence is much more structured and organised, attack can be more fluid and free form.

 

[FellTop]

I think it was doubts over fitness issues with Cirkin and Aji.

Sounds about right mate. Still not sure it is a deal we needed to do then and there. He hardly played last season and we ended up playing an international loan midfielder left back most of the time if I recall?

I might be being hyper critical with this one. It just feels like at times we have done a deal because we can, rather than because we should.

 

[Brainy Dose]

That's the coaches job. To get the player in question to the level necessary to function within his system. Speakman would see it as a coaching fail if RLB were to say Seelt/Johnson isn't capable of playing in his second position.

Exactly. It's the coaching job to look at these players and help them to improve,and if that means seeing something and encouraging them into a different position,then so be it. Just because we sign a lad as a wide player,doesn't mean he has to stay a wide player. Pep is brilliant at it...it's his greatest strength....and in my lifetime,I can think of no better example than Superkev.

 

[alcoauth]

I dont buy into the idea of a second position particularly. You can have flexibility in players for sure, so somebody like Huggins can play left or right. Rigg can probably play left side or right side 8. Huggins is a full back though, not a CB. Generally though the role of the utility player, as it once was, isnt the way forward anymore. I see the likes of Milner as the end of that sort of squad role.

Coaches, generally have a little amount of time with players once pre season is done. Expecting RLB to be able to coach Seelt to be a top class CB and a good forward thinking right back is unreasonable. There is no time. The role of the CB is very very specific in modern football. A huge amount of technical detail goes into how to play it. A defensively solid full back like Hume could slot into a back 3. A defensively sound CB doesnt translate well to a forward thinking full back. At our level anyway. Elite elite players like Maldini or Lahm can make it look easy, but that isnt down to coaching, that is down to huge talent and experience.

The further up the pitch you go flexibility is easier to create, and trust. Trust being key. A player like Mundle, for example could be effective in a couple of positions. Indeed you could play a fluid front 3 if the players are talented enough. But the reality is defence is much more structured and organised, attack can be more fluid and free form.

Squads are seemingly getting bigger, if versatility is an old idea, how do you square that?

 

[Southern A]

Once Poveda is fit towards the end of the window I'd seriously consider loaning Ba out to get regular football. Looks like he needs it. He's one who could come back a totally improved player.

 

[Brainy Dose]

Sounds about right mate. Still not sure it is a deal we needed to do then and there. He hardly played last season and we ended up playing an international loan midfielder left back most of the time if I recall?

I might be being hyper critical with this one. It just feels like at times we have done a deal because we can, rather than because we should.

There may have been an element of over-panic in it,but,it's not a deal which is going to hurt us. At times in the past,we'd have signed some journeyman aged about 31,on big money and spent the next 3 years regretting it!

 

[alcoauth]

Exactly. It's the coaching job to look at these players and help them to improve,and if that means seeing something and encouraging them into a different position,then so be it. Just because we sign a lad as a wide player,doesn't mean he has to stay a wide player. Pep is brilliant at it...it's his greatest strength....and in my lifetime,I can think of no better example than Superkev.

The system also adapts to the players, you couldn't play like Man City if your players are below the standard necessary to pull it off. Finding effective ways to play are more important than being dogmatic, idealistic yes, ideological no.

 

[FellTop]

Exactly. It's the coaching job to look at these players and help them to improve,and if that means seeing something and encouraging them into a different position,then so be it. Just because we sign a lad as a wide player,doesn't mean he has to stay a wide player. Pep is brilliant at it...it's his greatest strength....and in my lifetime,I can think of no better example than Superkev.

Pep does have the benefit of coaching the very best players mate. It makes a difference. The best are the best because they can learn or have innate natural talent. It also helps that the other 10 players on the pitch are world class too. We are not at the level of having these sorts of luxuries currently.

 

[FellTop]

There may have been an element of over-panic in it,but,it's not a deal which is going to hurt us. At times in the past,we'd have signed some journeyman aged about 31,on big money and spent the next 3 years regretting it!

I dont think we will regret it in terms of Hjelde the player. I do wonder whether the £1m plus may have been better used elsewhere though. Just musing now though.

 

[Brainy Dose]

The system also adapts to the players, you couldn't play like Man City if your players are below the standard necessary to pull it off. Finding effective ways to play are more important than being dogmatic, idealistic yes, ideological no.

Yep,good coaches assess the skills of the players and coach them into the system. The very good ones recognise the player skills and adapt the system,if necessary, to produce maximum reward from those skills. I suppose what I'm getting at is that we have a number of young,talented players,and we're not really being given any evidence that we know where their skills actually lie,and would be best employed by us. As I've said somewhere,I believe this is down to constant coaching changes.

 

[alcoauth]

Yep,good coaches assess the skills of the players and coach them into the system. The very good ones recognise the player skills and adapt the system,if necessary, to produce maximum reward from those skills. I suppose what I'm getting at is that we have a number of young,talented players,and we're not really being given any evidence that we know where their skills actually lie,and would be best employed by us. As I've said somewhere,I believe this is down to constant coaching changes.

Fully agree, playing like Man City is a luxury like @FellTop said, us mere mortals must be a little flexible if we wish to succeed.

 

[Brainy Dose]

Pep does have the benefit of coaching the very best players mate. It makes a difference. The best are the best because they can learn or have innate natural talent. It also helps that the other 10 players on the pitch are world class too. We are not at the level of having these sorts of luxuries currently.

I know. I wasn't trying to compare Man C squad with ours or Pep with RLB....just putting forward a principle.

 

[FellTop]

Squads are seemingly getting bigger, if versatility is an old idea, how do you square that?

Versatility isnt an old idea per se. It has its place, arguably more in the attack minded positions than in the defensive minded ones. At least in my opinion anyway.

Squads are getting bigger, for me at least, due to money. Money has driven the elite clubs to play more and more games. International tournaments mid season as well. Clubs, rightly or wrongly think they need bigger squads. This filters down through the leagues.

The transfer window has also had a major effect. You get an injury or two in September and arguably you are in trouble. Clubs guard against that because they can afford to.

Then from the bottom up there are far too many kids being taken through academies creating a surplus of players, but that is a whole other conversation