Transfer Rumours Summer 2024 transfer thread

[Brucebones]

So if we sell Phiolgene for £20m, minus the £5m we paid for him, leaving a £15m profit. Acun's favourite sell on fee is 50% (of the profit, to get the deal done) meaning we would only get £7.5m and over the course of a year Villa would get £12.5m, not too sure if we really did get a get deal for the original £5m.

All I'm trying to say is this 'massive' warchest everyone is talking about might not be as big as the numbers suggested. There will be the 100% profit on Greaves, so lets take the top end of the valuations of £20m, that's £27.5m (not to be sniffed at) but way off £40m which everyone is basing our future transfers on.

Again, all pure speculation as no-one knows the fine details of any deal.

There was a 50% sell on for Allahyar, I’ve not heard mention of one for Philogene.
Where did you see that?

 

[Jeff Lynnes PBCW™]

The more I think about the discussion the other day about us having no money to spend until Philogene and Greaves are sold, the more I think Acun royally ****ed us up since he came to the club. We were bought on the basis that we had the largest headroom in the league following the sale of Bowen and a few years of profit (before a reasonable loss getting back out of L1). We then sold KLP for pure profit for 16-17m. To Acun's credit he then massively increased commercial and matchday revenue. So to suggest all of that headroom, plus KLP's sale, plus the increased revenues, have all culminated in us having to basically have to strip our squad to the bone in order to bring in players this season screams incredibly poor management of the squad and financials.

I really hope we've learned our lessons and this summer's recruitment is not as scattershot and much more calculated. It's all well and good saying that Philogene's purchase worked out and netted us a huge fee, but it's irrelevant if it means we are then using his funds on a range of speculative picks as there's every chance none of them work out - since the body of evidence would suggest we've had a lot more misses than hits in the recruitment department. When KLP was sold, Greaves was already a first team regular, just as when Bowen was sold, KLP was already making his way into the first team. This time around, who is there? Matty Jacobs? The hope that Ashbee or Smith becomes the next big thing? It just feels like we're almost in a more unknown position now than we have been for quite some time. It could all go really well and Walter brings in half a dozen German guns he's worked with before and we storm the league, or we could bring in a raft of players from across Europe as we have the past few years and not only fail to deliver on the pitch, but end up having lost the connection to Hull with no decent youth player in the team.

I just can't get my head around how the squad has been left in such an exposed position two to three years into Acun's reign. I imagined we'd be a selling club, but that we'd have a strong 10-15 player core and would be selling players from a reasonable position of strength, not all but forcing players like Greaves out the door in order to have a pot of cash.

100% of the monies raised from these sales will be invested back into the squad supplemented by the £13M Acun is allowed to put in himself.
If you had reasonable grounds to believe that instead Acun was funnelling the money away as did the Allams then youd have grounds to criticise the owner but assuming you have none of that, it just sounds like you are criticising Acun for not being a magician that can keep all their prize assets plus strengthen the squad without having to abide by the limitations of FFP.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

100% of the monies raised from these sales will be invested back into the squad supplemented by the £13M Acun is allowed to put in himself.
If you had reasonable grounds to believe that instead Acun was funnelling the money away as did the Allams then youd have grounds to criticise the owner but assuming you have none of that, it just sounds like you are criticising Acun for not being a magician that can keep all their prize assets plus strengthen the squad without having to abide by the limitations of FFP.

I'm not sure how you read whatever it is you think you've read into my post. But this response doesn't really address anything I've written.

 

[originallambrettaman]

There was a 50% sell on for Allahyar, I’ve not heard mention of one for Philogene.
Where did you see that?

Allahyar and Omur had 50% sell-on clauses, nobody else that we’re aware of, Philogene’s won’t be anywhere near that.

 

[Steven Toast]

The more I think about the discussion the other day about us having no money to spend until Philogene and Greaves are sold, the more I think Acun royally ****ed us up since he came to the club. We were bought on the basis that we had the largest headroom in the league following the sale of Bowen and a few years of profit (before a reasonable loss getting back out of L1). We then sold KLP for pure profit for 16-17m. To Acun's credit he then massively increased commercial and matchday revenue. So to suggest all of that headroom, plus KLP's sale, plus the increased revenues, have all culminated in us having to basically have to strip our squad to the bone in order to bring in players this season screams incredibly poor management of the squad and financials.

I really hope we've learned our lessons and this summer's recruitment is not as scattershot and much more calculated. It's all well and good saying that Philogene's purchase worked out and netted us a huge fee, but it's irrelevant if it means we are then using his funds on a range of speculative picks as there's every chance none of them work out - since the body of evidence would suggest we've had a lot more misses than hits in the recruitment department. When KLP was sold, Greaves was already a first team regular, just as when Bowen was sold, KLP was already making his way into the first team. This time around, who is there? Matty Jacobs? The hope that Ashbee or Smith becomes the next big thing? It just feels like we're almost in a more unknown position now than we have been for quite some time. It could all go really well and Walter brings in half a dozen German guns he's worked with before and we storm the league, or we could bring in a raft of players from across Europe as we have the past few years and not only fail to deliver on the pitch, but end up having lost the connection to Hull with no decent youth player in the team.

I just can't get my head around how the squad has been left in such an exposed position two to three years into Acun's reign. I imagined we'd be a selling club, but that we'd have a strong 10-15 player core and would be selling players from a reasonable position of strength, not all but forcing players like Greaves out the door in order to have a pot of cash.

It’s not that we don’t have money, people seem to have forgotten that we have one Murat Ulker sat in the background.

The issue isn’t so much access to cash, it’s that we can’t make much more of a loss than we have been doing without incurring penalties under FFP.

If Greaves and Jaden go, especially if it’s north of the £35m figure touted, then coupled with Tufan and Allsop going it puts us in the black.

Last summer we let Elder go and sold Figs, Tetteh and Allahyar. We actually only paid for four permanent players, Furlong, Allsop, Lokilo and Jaden (we technically bought Simons in March) and the bulk of that cost was Philogene’s transfer. We spent more on loans than we did on transfer fees last season because we had splashed out the season before under Shota.

But if these proposed transfers go through, it should open up for us to spend more.

On the next players we sell for bigger profit, I’d wager Slater is probably worth at least a hundred times what we paid for him, ditto Alfie Jones. Abdush if he has a good season this year wouldn’t be cheap for other teams and if he keeps progressing, I reckon the next kid through the academy to first team door will be Sincere Hall.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

It’s not that we don’t have money, people seem to have forgotten that we have one Murat Ulker sat in the background.

The issue isn’t so much access to cash, it’s that we can’t make much more of a loss than we have been doing without incurring penalties under FFP.

If Greaves and Jaden go, especially if it’s north of the £35m figure touted, then coupled with Tufan and Allsop going it puts us in the black.

Last summer we let Elder go and sold Figs, Tetteh and Allahyar. We actually only paid for four permanent players, Furlong, Allsop, Lokilo and Jaden (we technically bought Simons in March) and the bulk of that cost was Philogene’s transfer. We spent more on loans than we did on transfer fees last season because we had splashed out the season before under Shota.

But if these proposed transfers go through, it should open up for us to spend more.

On the next players we sell for bigger profit, I’d wager Slater is probably worth at least a hundred times what we paid for him, ditto Alfie Jones. Abdush if he has a good season this year wouldn’t be cheap for other teams and if he keeps progressing, I reckon the next kid through the academy to first team door will be Sincere Hall.

As Kalman pointed out though, FFP isn't a point in time, it's measured for the course of the year. If we spend money in July and recoup sales in August, we're still fine for the FFP year. And if the unthinkable happened and Philogene and Greaves were both hit by a bus tomorrow and couldn't be sold, we would have room to move through the rest of the window and January to ensure we aren't in breach of FFP.

 

[Tigerite]

Thing is as we all know, we have to get the signings spot on as the cupboard is bare. Which means rushing transfers isn’t really an option and we have to take our time.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

One word. Tit.

No, just telling it as it is.

Not bed wetting either. I fully get that the club have cleared out a lot of players, creating space and a mini-war chest, and that this money will be spent on new players for Walter this summer, and maybe into January.

That doesn't change the facts of where we are now, coming up for 3 years into Acun's ownership. And what is happening now is a huge gamble as we near off start again, on and off the pitch. It shouldn't be like this.

Syd and Kalman in posts #4532 & 4533 saved me a lot of typing. No need for me to repeat what they've already rightly typed.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

No, just telling it as it is.

Not bed wetting either. I fully get that the club have cleared out a lot of players, creating space and a mini-war chest, and that this money will be spent on new players for Walter this summer, and maybe into January.

That doesn't change the facts of where we are now, coming up for 3 years into Acun's ownership. And what is happening now is a huge gamble as we near off start again, on and off the pitch. It shouldn't be like this.

Syd and Kalman in posts #4532 & 4533 saved me a lot of typing. No need for me to repeat what they've already rightly typed.

A reply to me on Twitter:

https://x.com/TristarAlpha/status/1810088012543627575

Don't worry mate! I'm not expecting anything in the next 2-3 years.

 

[TIGERSCAVE]

No, just telling it as it is.

Not bed wetting either. I fully get that the club have cleared out a lot of players, creating space and a mini-war chest, and that this money will be spent on new players for Walter this summer, and maybe into January.

That doesn't change the facts of where we are now, coming up for 3 years into Acun's ownership. And what is happening now is a huge gamble as we near off start again, on and off the pitch. It shouldn't be like this.

Syd and Kalman in posts #4532 & 4533 saved me a lot of typing. No need for me to repeat what they've already rightly typed.

I'm just pleased its Acun causing any bed wetting and not the previous incumbents...

 

[HCAFCHangout]

As Kalman pointed out though, FFP isn't a point in time, it's measured for the course of the year. If we spend money in July and recoup sales in August, we're still fine for the FFP year. And if the unthinkable happened and Philogene and Greaves were both hit by a bus tomorrow and couldn't be sold, we would have room to move through the rest of the window and January to ensure we aren't in breach of FFP.

This is what I don’t get. We knew Greaves and Jaden would likely be going. So if the cash flow is there why not bring in one or two just to get the ball rolling. It wouldn’t exactly weaken our bargaining standpoint of selling them and we’d at least make a start.

It’s either nothing has come our way yet which I accept is a real possibility or I really hope this isn’t the case that we are in a cash flow situation

 

[Stockholm Tiger]

I think Sinik will stay and might actually surprise us.

Not for any logical reason i just feel it.

I think Sinik will stay and disappoint us.

I hope you're right rather than me though.

 

[Stockholm Tiger]

And tigers+. Seemed to always get more excited when we conceded than when we scored.

Talking about Tigers+ has there been anything yet about match streaming for overseas punters?

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Talking about Tigers+ has there been anything yet about match streaming for overseas punters?

Not that I've seen. Was actually just looking at things this morning, think it came through late July last year.

 

[originallambrettaman]

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[mazzer]

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I think the best move for him would be Crystal Palace

 

[mazzer]

Couldn’t agree more

Greaves would be better off going to Everton, Dyche would be a good manager for him.

 

[Steven Toast]

As Kalman pointed out though, FFP isn't a point in time, it's measured for the course of the year. If we spend money in July and recoup sales in August, we're still fine for the FFP year. And if the unthinkable happened and Philogene and Greaves were both hit by a bus tomorrow and couldn't be sold, we would have room to move through the rest of the window and January to ensure we aren't in breach of FFP.

Right, but the trigger point for penalties is a £39m loss over three years.

In 2021 we made a loss of £8.2m

In 2022 we made a profit of £13.9m

In 2023 we made a loss of £21m.

So £29.2m in losses negated by £13.9m in profit gives us £15.3m in the red.

It's probably safe to assume that there was very little value in player sales last year with £2m for Allahyar, £1.5m for Tetteh, £2m for Tufan and let's be generous and say £1m for Allsop. So at best that's £6.5m raked in, while we paid for Lokilo (£450k apparently), Allsop (£1m), Furlong (£200k), Pandur (£1.6m), Omur (£2.5m) and Philogene (£5m) so that's £10.8m going out in permanent fees, plus whatever we paid in loan fees which aren't usually disclosed (but would probably have been pretty decent sized fees).

We don't know the operating costs for this season but if they were following a pattern, it's likely that we made a pretty substantial loss. So for this season, we need to make some gains. The £8.2m will now not count, but last season will and I'm guessing we're going to be pretty close to the £39m loss figure. Selling Greaves and Philogene will boost what we can spend considerably, but don't think of it as "if we get £40m for both we will have £40m to spend".

I don't know what we owe in terms of loans either, presumably they are to Acun Medya so they don't really count. I'm not trying to be the bearer of bad news or anything, just trying to put some justification on why we need to sell.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Right, but the trigger point for penalties is a £39m loss over three years.

In 2021 we made a loss of £8.2m

In 2022 we made a profit of £13.9m

In 2023 we made a loss of £21m.

So £29.2m in losses negated by £13.9m in profit gives us £15.3m in the red.

It's probably safe to assume that there was very little value in player sales last year with £2m for Allahyar, £1.5m for Tetteh, £2m for Tufan and let's be generous and say £1m for Allsop. So at best that's £6.5m raked in, while we paid for Lokilo (£450k apparently), Allsop (£1m), Furlong (£200k), Pandur (£1.6m), Omur (£2.5m) and Philogene (£5m) so that's £10.8m going out in permanent fees, plus whatever we paid in loan fees which aren't usually disclosed (but would probably have been pretty decent sized fees).

We don't know the operating costs for this season but if they were following a pattern, it's likely that we made a pretty substantial loss. So for this season, we need to make some gains. The £8.2m will now not count, but last season will and I'm guessing we're going to be pretty close to the £39m loss figure. Selling Greaves and Philogene will boost what we can spend considerably, but don't think of it as "if we get £40m for both we will have £40m to spend".

I don't know what we owe in terms of loans either, presumably they are to Acun Medya so they don't really count. I'm not trying to be the bearer of bad news or anything, just trying to put some justification on why we need to sell.

That's not really what I said mate. I wasn't saying cop a loss this year and fix it next year. Don't think they judge the losses as at July...

Also you're looking purely at the losses as they're presented p&l (and our 2023 loss was only 6m). FFP contains plenty of deductions meaning you can't just judge that. Or Stoke and Boro would be in a bit of trouble

Also you're counting the entire outgoing fee when it's just the amortised portion counted in that year's accounts.

 

[Jezz511]

Striker coming in isn't Celar apparently