State vs Religion

[The Ginger Marks]

Can I suggest a new title? Fairy tales v the State.

 

[Quesadaad]

FFS! I've now got Kiss - God Gave Rock and Roll to you in my head y'twat!

Excellent!!!
(Strums air guitar)

 

[DMD]

It’s far more nuanced than that imo. Many people appear to struggle to distinguish between right and wrong whether religious or not. However, I think it’s dismissive to suggest that those who choose to live by Christian principles, as needing to ‘refer to a book’. The ‘book’ is open to interpretation.

Where it all goes a bit strange & I generally think religions are a bit bonkers, is when extreme literal interpretation of some of the words in a book are made the cornerstone of people’s day to day lives, and serve literally no purpose.
For example, I grew up in an area that had a large Jewish community & I found the Sabbath switch absolutely barking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat

However, I remember saying this to a Jewish kid & he rightly pointed out that ‘your lot’ (I was Catholic) believe that a piece of wafer & wine with water, are literally the body & blood of Christ after the priest says a few words over them. I couldn’t go.

Again, I don't disagree. Your experience with your jewish pal does flag up the problem of comparing elements of religion, especially when as you say, they do all see, to be strange to say the least.

When you say that the book is open to interpretation, that to me is part of the problem. If they are interpreting it differently, then where are they drawing these alternative values from? The books in themselves are not the answer, in fact in many respects they are more than just a part of the problem, particularly when someone holds its contents to force their views on others. How can an atheist, heathen etc blaspheme?

 

[DMD]

So no matter what I've put forward regarding incorporating a huge chunk of people who have religious beliefs or simple faith in something that you cannot disprove and combining all of societies thoughts and wishes you just go back to they are wrong and we should ignore anything they say?

You're mixing up the existence of God with the words in the various holy books. The words in the books are disprovable in so far as them being the word of god. I've already given one example of why.

 

[The Ginger Marks]

You're mixing up the existence of God with the words in the various holy books. The words in the books are disprovable in so far as them being the word of god. I've already given one example of why.

Gilgamesh, written two centuries before the bible version. I guess everybody loves a story eh.

 

[thefanwithnoname]

Not sure where you are going with Brunei because it is quite clear that the imposition of Sharia type laws in the penal code are based on the Sultan's interpretation of religion. The Sultan has even come out and called for stronger Islam at the same time as he announced the new laws, some of which will also apply to the non-Muslims living in the country.

I hope that the other ASEAN countries will come out with strongly worded statements and actions against Brunei over this. I am also surprised how little press coverage has been given to the UK troops in there and how much pressure could be put on by threatening to remove these. As a supposedly all-inclusive employer it seems wrong that teh Britsh Army should be seen to be condoning these actions.

Reading from an Asian paper yesterday whilst I was at a family. Apparently it's only applicable to Muslims of Brunei

 

[Rorschach]

Corbyn: I strongly disagree with what Filou said and he should be disciplined.

Journalist: So your saying that you hate Israel...

 

[DMD]

Gilgamesh, written two centuries before the bible version. I guess everybody loves a story eh.

Makes for interesting reading. The bits about the planets they knew about, and other things that have later turned out to be accurate, leave big questions about their version of our creation. You can certainly see it in the later 'holy' books.

 

[Edelman]

FFS! I've now got Kiss - God Gave Rock and Roll to you in my head y'twat!

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Try this one

 

[Spurlock]

Burly (RIP mate) lived and worked in Saudi for a few years. I remember him telling me about a story about when he was over there. Women weren't allowed to drive at the time and there weren't really any laws for drivers to abide by. He said men would fly around the streets with kids in the cars. These kids would be in the front seat without a seat belt on. He told me that if kids were involved in an accident which sent them flying through the windscreen and ultimately to their deaths, it was never the parents fault. It was always 'Gods will'. I find that ****ing hideous.

It is stories like that which strengthen my belief that religion is holding back mankind from progressing. If you want to have faith, that's fine. Whatever your religion is, though. Do not hide behind a ****ing book and somebody who you have never encountered in your life. I'm man enough to take responsibility for my own failures and I stand by my decisions that end badly, for me. I don't think anybody should palm that off when life gets hard to make things easier for themselves. That is just cowardice.

I just find people who are against faiths...rarely know the depths of a faith. Just a bit they heard from their mates and the rest from what TV and other forms of media has taught them through life.

I'm responsible for my own actions and no scripture has ever encouraged me to just blame it on God.

 

[JakartaToon]

Reading from an Asian paper yesterday whilst I was at a family. Apparently it's only applicable to Muslims of Brunei

Not completely true. Certain laws are only applicable to Muslims but certainly those concerning adultery and homosexual sex are applicable to all. Only been there once - probably the worlds most boring country.

 

[Sharpe*]

His beliefs are his business, he can believe what he wants.

However, the ARU’s reputation is their business & he took to social media to post homophobic views. As with any employer / organisation, if in their opinion an employee / member has brought their organisation into disrepute with public pronouncements that are deemed unacceptable, then they are fully within their rights to remove them from their organisation.

Does the punishment fit the crime is maybe he more salient point in this case, maybe an unreserved public apology as opposed to a weak attempt at justification might have saved his skin here.

Seems like he's turned into a bit of a religious nut.

Sort of a shame as he's a good player.

 

[The Ginger Marks]

I just find people who are against faiths...rarely know the depths of a faith. Just a bit they heard from their mates and the rest from what TV and other forms of media has taught them through life.

I'm responsible for my own actions and no scripture has ever encouraged me to just blame it on God.

Depth of fairy tales yeah? Sumerian’s did it before you guys. Do you like a story to?

 

[thefanwithnoname]

Not completely true. Certain laws are only applicable to Muslims but certainly those concerning adultery and homosexual sex are applicable to all. Only been there once - probably the worlds most boring country.

I don't know about the place in terms of never been

But in what I was reading it was a specifically in this new issue.

What it said was that it was applicable to the Muslim citizens of Brunei and that 3 witnesses needed to come forward to prove any such act/action took place.

Here's an interesting thought, nno that it would work, but if you are a practising Muslim/christian/Jew etc then say you broke one of your own rules, should you get your own punishment? So a thief gets hand cut off (after all particular criteria is fulfilled not like Saudi etc). After all if you truly "believe" then the punishment is administered so it's dealt with here and not the hereafter?

 

[Commachio]

Wow, read the first and last page.

Wish we had an 'ignore thread' function

 

[Deleted.......]

Seems like he's turned into a bit of a religious nut.

Sort of a shame as he's a good player.

The Aussies didn't have much chance - now they've absolutely none. Would be funny if they didn't make it through the pool stage...

 

[Bodinki]

Wow, read the first and last page.

Wish we had an 'ignore thread' function

I kinda feel the same, though I do kind of enjoy watching people who hate DMD squirm and feel uncomfortable when they agree with him

"If he is right, then I want to be wrong!"

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[DMD]

I kinda feel the same, though I do kind of enjoy watching people who hate DMD squirm and feel uncomfortable when they agree with him

"If he is right, then I want to be wrong!"

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They made false assumptions and applied labels on the strength of them almost from the off. Whenever they've got into a serious conversation, they turn out to not just agree with most of my principles, but show themselves to be much further to the right than I am.

They've spent much of the last few years confused because reality doesn't fit their fantasy. When it creeps in, they claim I must be lying.

 

[JakartaToon]

I don't know about the place in terms of never been

But in what I was reading it was a specifically in this new issue.

What it said was that it was applicable to the Muslim citizens of Brunei and that 3 witnesses needed to come forward to prove any such act/action took place.

Here's an interesting thought, nno that it would work, but if you are a practising Muslim/christian/Jew etc then say you broke one of your own rules, should you get your own punishment? So a thief gets hand cut off (after all particular criteria is fulfilled not like Saudi etc). After all if you truly "believe" then the punishment is administered so it's dealt with here and not the hereafter?

Certainly seen the bit about the witnesses, who must be of high moral standing, and also seen that the Sultan has said that he doesn't intend for the punishments to actually be used but that they should act as a deterrent to make people stop doing these 'crimes'!

Does it actually say in the Quran that if you accept your punishment on earth then its considered dealt with. I understood that if you repent your actions afterwards you should be forgiven and Allah will also forgive you. Presumably if you don't repent your actions you are punished and are you not forgiven?

 

[Stan]

They made false assumptions and applied labels on the strength of them almost from the off. Whenever they've got into a serious conversation, they turn out to not just agree with most of my principles, but show themselves to be much further to the right than I am.

They've spent much of the last few years confused because reality doesn't fit their fantasy. When it creeps in, they claim I must be lying.

Hilarious given your latest **** up on the politics thread.