Sport Republic

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

The Prem is most popular now internationally because our clubs are the richest and can buy the most expensive players. But as the American game grows domestically, their clubs will get richer and richer, and they will eventually start competing with European teams in buying the best players. When they can afford those players, then the international interest will grow. I see kids already in my local park in Shirley wearing Inter Miami shirts.

And the US is producing lots of talented players now. Even if it is their fifth or sixth most popular sport, there are still millions of genuine football fans in the US.

If they have a successful World Cup - which they will - the game will become even more popular over there.

The MLS will become an elite league. Not next year or even five years from now. But twenty or thirty years down the line, it will.

The Saudis bought loads of top players but no one cares because the overall quality is still crap due to not producing any domestic talent. The same thing happened in China.

You need a combination of wealth to buy talent as well as domestic talent coming through youth set ups (Europe also has advantage here too as players can move abroad and be a couple of hours from home rather than 10 hours+).

The mls and Saudi will never compete with PL or even the other top euro leagues

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

The Saudis bought loads of top players but no one cares because the overall quality is still crap due to not producing any domestic talent. The same thing happened in China.

You need a combination of wealth to buy talent as well as domestic talent coming through youth set ups (Europe also has advantage here too as players can move abroad and be a couple of hours from home rather than 10 hours+).

The mls and Saudi will never compete with PL or even the other top euro leagues

Why you think the US isn’t creating any talent?

Even our ‘big’ signing this summer is an American kid.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

Why you think the US isn’t creating any talent?

Even our ‘big’ signing this summer is an American kid.

He apparently played American football until his family moved to Germany as a kid. He is actually quite a good example of why USA produce so few players.

His is clearly talented but would never have developed if he didn't move to Europe. Had his family remained he would likely just be another American football player.

 

[tomw24]

The Saudis bought loads of top players but no one cares because the overall quality is still crap due to not producing any domestic talent. The same thing happened in China.

You need a combination of wealth to buy talent as well as domestic talent coming through youth set ups (Europe also has advantage here too as players can move abroad and be a couple of hours from home rather than 10 hours+).

The mls and Saudi will never compete with PL or even the other top euro leagues

The US are developing talent. Cavan Sullivan is 15 and has played in the MLS. Has also agreed a move to Man City when he turn 18. He also has an older brother who is a regular starter. There are others as well but I can't be bothered to look them up.

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

He apparently played American football until his family moved to Germany as a kid. He is actually quite a good example of why USA produce so few players.

His is clearly talented but would never have developed if he didn't move to Europe. Had his family remained he would likely just be another American football player.

There are over 300 million people in the US. Even if only one person out of 50 plays football, then that’s a population of 6 million. That’s the same size - or bigger - than good football nations like Uruguay, Croatia, Denmark, Serbia etc. But the US has the money to really develop young talent, and they are. It’s only a matter of time before they become a force in world football.

Your average MLS game has a higher attendance than your average NBA or MLS game.

Comparisons with efforts in China and the Middle East are pointless, but I won’t go into that for now.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

There are over 300 million people in the US. Even if only one person out of 50 plays football, then that’s a population of 6 million. That’s the same size - or bigger - than good football nations like Uruguay, Croatia, Denmark, Serbia etc. But the US has the money to really develop young talent, and they are. It’s only a matter of time before they become a force in world football.

Your average MLS game has a higher attendance than your average NBA or MLS game.

Comparisons with efforts in China and the Middle East are pointless, but I won’t go into that for now.

They have had money to develop players for years, but how many top players have they produced? Obviously there has been the odd one or two but not many of note. Just looking at it in terms of numbers doesn't take into account how much more lucrative and desirable careers in NFL, NBA or MLB are. All of the top athletic talent will be pushed towards those sports, so that 6 million isn't the cream of the crop like it would be in Uruguay, it is mostly kids that weren't good enough at the other sports.

Americans still do not care about MLS compared to NFL, MLB, NBA & NHL. Averages attendances mean little, that isn't what generates revenue and is also not a great barometer of national interest - you are better off looking at viewing figures... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1430289/most-watched-sports-leagues-usa/

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

They have had money to develop players for years, but how many top players have they produced? Obviously there has been the odd one or two but not many of note. Just looking at it in terms of numbers doesn't take into account how much more lucrative and desirable careers in NFL, NBA or MLB are. All of the top athletic talent will be pushed towards those sports, so that 6 million isn't the cream of the crop like it would be in Uruguay, it is mostly kids that weren't good enough at the other sports.

Americans still do not care about MLS compared to NFL, MLB, NBA & NHL. Averages attendances mean little, that isn't what generates revenue and is also not a great barometer of national interest - you are better off looking at viewing figures... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1430289/most-watched-sports-leagues-usa/

Takes time though. America has produced very few F1 drivers worth a seat (particularly recently), but the massive uptick in interest generated by Drive To Survive will mean in time that more US drivers will be pulled toward F1 and away from Indy. Things like the Wrexham stuff, the US owners, and the World Cup next year will (probably) have the same impact, but it’ll be a while.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

Takes time though. America has produced very few F1 drivers worth a seat (particularly recently), but the massive uptick in interest generated by Drive To Survive will mean in time that more US drivers will be pulled toward F1 and away from Indy. Things like the Wrexham stuff, the US owners, and the World Cup next year will (probably) have the same impact, but it’ll be a while.

It does take a while yeah, but people thought there would be a big growth in interest after Beckham moved over and was followed by various other stars such as Henry/Villa. Yet here we are and it is still tiny compared to other american sports. I just don't see it growing much because of how ingrained NFL & MLB, and to a lesser extent NBA, are in American culture. They hoover all up all the talent and I cant see that changing.

 

[tomw24]

It does take a while yeah, but people thought there would be a big growth in interest after Beckham moved over and was followed by various other stars such as Henry/Villa. Yet here we are and it is still tiny compared to other american sports. I just don't see it growing much because of how ingrained NFL & MLB, and to a lesser extent NBA, are in American culture. They hoover all up all the talent and I cant see that changing.

It is changing. Football is becoming much, much bigger than it was at youth level. By signing stars like Messi and Son kids want to play football rather than baseball or american football. Obviously, plenty want to play those sports and that won't change but don't underestimate the growth of youth football in the US. I referee one of the biggest youth tournaments in the world over there and colleges send scouts to it to identify the best talent.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

It does take a while yeah, but people thought there would be a big growth in interest after Beckham moved over and was followed by various other stars such as Henry/Villa. Yet here we are and it is still tiny compared to other american sports. I just don't see it growing much because of how ingrained NFL & MLB, and to a lesser extent NBA, are in American culture. They hoover all up all the talent and I cant see that changing.

True enough. I think it will grow, but with America becoming all the more isolationist, perhaps not to the levels it could/should.

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

They have had money to develop players for years, but how many top players have they produced? Obviously there has been the odd one or two but not many of note. Just looking at it in terms of numbers doesn't take into account how much more lucrative and desirable careers in NFL, NBA or MLB are. All of the top athletic talent will be pushed towards those sports, so that 6 million isn't the cream of the crop like it would be in Uruguay, it is mostly kids that weren't good enough at the other sports.

Americans still do not care about MLS compared to NFL, MLB, NBA & NHL. Averages attendances mean little, that isn't what generates revenue and is also not a great barometer of national interest - you are better off looking at viewing figures... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1430289/most-watched-sports-leagues-usa/

Why better off using TV viewing figures? I have literally never watched a game of domestic rugby on TV. And yet I've played it for large periods of my life, as a child and as an adult. How many Olympic sports do people watch day to day on TV? And yet the US always excels, in every single event, without fail.

Also, a lot of football fans in the US watch foreign football leagues, like the Prem, rather than the MLS.

Even if the numbers are relatively small, the point is they are growing significantly. Americans buy more tickets than any other nationality, at every single world cup. To say there is an insignificant football culture in the US is just wrong.

EDIT: Anyway whatever. Let's just come back to this discussion in ten years, haha.

 

[Saintmagic]

Another big reason why they don’t develop as much talent relative to their size is they don’t have academies in the MLS. It’s still the high school > college > pro route that the NFL has. Due to the nature of this and football not being as popular colleges don’t invest as much money into football as they do other sports so the development of young players isn’t there.

This means that any particularly talented player leaves for Europe and an academy young, but not too many due to the aforementioned competition with other more lucrative sports and relocating like that isn’t very appealing to families who have a 12 year old and have to move half way round the world to let them get into an academy on the slim chance they might turn pro. If/when MLS teams start getting academies then this could speed run the development of the sport in the country as a whole.

 

[tomw24]

True enough. I think it will grow, but with America becoming all the more isolationist, perhaps not to the levels it could/should.

It is. Trust me, I've seen it with my own eyes. Baseball and american football are always going to be more popular as the NFL and MLB had a huge head start on MLS but there is a drive to get kids involved in football. I started refereeing out there in 2010, I go to the same place each time, and the amount of money that has been spent there since I started going is immense.

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

Another big reason why they don’t develop as much talent relative to their size is they don’t have academies in the MLS. It’s still the high school > college > pro route that the NFL has. Due to the nature of this and football not being as popular colleges don’t invest as much money into football as they do other sports so the development of young players isn’t there.

This means that any particularly talented player leaves for Europe and an academy young, but not too many due to the aforementioned competition with other more lucrative sports. If/when MLS teams start getting academies then this could speed run the development of the sport in the country as a whole.

It isn't just proffesional football clubs that run academies though. There are a load of independent academies. Our own Nico Lawrence came through the London-based Kinetic academy before he signed for Saints at 18 years old. This kind of thing is probably rare in England, because the talent gets hoovered up by the big clubs. But in other countries, the talent will still get spotted, regardless of who is funding the academies.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

It is changing. Football is becoming much, much bigger than it was at youth level. By signing stars like Messi and Son kids want to play football rather than baseball or american football. Obviously, plenty want to play those sports and that won't change but don't underestimate the growth of youth football in the US. I referee one of the biggest youth tournaments in the world over there and colleges send scouts to it to identify the best talent.

People said the same about Beckham and then Henry but they came and went just as Messi will. I think it is down to competition with other sports and, as Saint Magic says, this wont change until either colleges or academies start investing to compete with other sports.

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

It is. Trust me, I've seen it with my own eyes. Baseball and american football are always going to be more popular as the NFL and MLB had a huge head start on MLS but there is a drive to get kids involved in football. I started refereeing out there in 2010, I go to the same place each time, and the amount of money that has been spent there since I started going is immense.

Yep doesn't surprise me. Have lived in a lot of countries with large ex-pat communities, and am always meeting Americans who are very, very passionate about football.

The World Cup is coming at the perfect time for them. If they reach the semis, that will have a seismic effect.

 

[Saintmagic]

It isn't just proffesional football clubs that run academies though. There are a load of independent academies. Our own Nico Lawrence came through the London-based Kinetic academy before he signed for Saints at 18 years old. This kind of thing is probably rare in England, because the talent gets hoovered up by the big clubs. But in other countries, the talent will still get spotted, regardless of who is funding the academies.

Yeah I know there are private academies over there, but (to my knowledge) the vast majority cost money which immediately rules out a lot of people. They will offer some scholarships but still not the same as how talent is developed in Europe. If it’s the high school > college route then you lose a lot of potential players to the general temptations of being a teenage athlete over there as it is very different to here for that.

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

Yeah I know there are private academies over there, but (to my knowledge) the vast majority cost money which immediately rules out a lot of people. They will offer some scholarships but still not the same as how talent is developed in Europe. If it’s the high school > college route then you lose a lot of potential players to the general temptations of being a teenage athlete over there as it is very different to here for that.

No doubt there are huge obstacles for football in the US. I agree on that. But football is the world's most popular sport for a reason. It conquers everywhere. How easy is it for kids growing up to casually go and play ice hockey? It's a great spectator sport, but it just isn't practical.

 

[Saintmagic]

No doubt there are huge obstacles for football in the US. I agree on that. But football is the world's most popular sport for a reason. It conquers everywhere. How easy is it for kids growing up to casually go and play ice hockey? It's a great spectator sport, but it just isn't practical.

I agree that it could easily become massive over there as it doesn’t have the same barriers to entry of other popular sports over there. Ice hockey is limited to where you live as to how easy it is to play, basketball you need to be 6’7 to have a decent a shot of making it, American football you need to be either an Olympic level athlete or be able to throw the ball a mile and your parents not fussed about potential head injuries from a young age so they can start young.

It will grow, and take time, but I can easily see it getting there

 

[Che’s Godlike Thighs]

I agree that it could easily become massive over there as it doesn’t have the same barriers to entry of other popular sports over there. Ice hockey is limited to where you live as to how easy it is to play, basketball you need to be 6’7 to have a decent a shot of making it, American football you need to be either an Olympic level athlete or be able to throw the ball a mile and your parents not fussed about potential head injuries from a young age so they can start young.

It will grow, and take time, but I can easily see it getting there

Another big thing is the social attitude. There is/was a lot of stigma towards football in the US, because it was seen as a 'girls' sport. And all the diving around and injury-faking doesn't help the stereotype. A lot of the anti-football sentiment also comes form a deep-lying resentment that football is much more popular than American sports worldwide. But attitudes are changing. In a lot of places in the US now it is becoming the trendy thing to wear football shirts and openly discuss the game etc. Sure, your average Joe will follow the NFL and NBA more passionately, but it's now okay for them talk about 'soccer' in ways that they would never have done so before. Even in the redneck south.