Off Topic So, what now?

[johngalleyfan2]

I wasn't referring to the EU, I was referring to taxes, and it can be proven depending on how interpret it. You literally just wrote that English people pay more than Scottish and Wales combined! And now apparently it's all an equal share. Make your mind up. If you're going to antagonise me at least read what you're ****ing posting.

excuse me but your lack of understanding of what is written is becoming folklore you seem to miss bits out and then make a response up that fits your way of thinking … let us see if we analyse it a bit simpler for you Ive got 5 mins spare

I don't think this is the case to be fair JGF. I'm pretty sure Scottish people contribute more per capita, but that's under the assumption that they can claim North Sea oil as their own, which is debatable.

let us see if we analyse it a bit simpler for you ive got 5 mins spare ….
"I don't think this is the case to be fair JGF" .. Opening statement indicates you are unsure and have doubts about what you are about to attempt to comment on

"I'm pretty sure Scottish people contribute more per capita" [ in case anyone not sure what "per capita" means = head of population ] an undefined statement that some how has a red herring attached to say they pay more because the oilfields [ which belong to the UK, but is served mostly from Scotland because that is the closest UK point ]
I will re iterate the point made ….. [QUOTE="johngalleyfan2, WRONG AGAIN .. "the uk pays a fixed amount to the EU so every man woman and child is deemed to have paid an equal share" that is because it comes from CENTRAL GOV:….. do you have a separate demand from HMG asking you for a share of £b they cough up FOR THE EU ………[/QUOTE]
The UK is Eng/Scot/NI and Wales so each of those countries residents have "their share" paid by central funds [ to alleviate you questioning central funds, that is the grand total of money available to the treasury, raised by all the various taxes they put on pretty much most things nowadays ]

"under the assumption that they can claim North Sea oil as their own, which is debatable" This has nothing to do with how much Scotland residents pay their share of the EU BUDGET,
THE TERRITORIAL WATERS around our coast [ save the EIRE agreement on demarcation] belong to the UK. .. .. … TO EVEN DREAM that Scotland owns them now , or even if they became independent the day after they would automaticaly say ok we won the vote now all the oil is ours …. the infrastructure on shore and at sea is part owned / part financed by UK government. And it would take a few years for legislation to sort out "at sea demarcation" etc
sh#t 6 mins have to go

 

[BCFCRob]

Sigh.... In the same page you wrote 'England citizens per head contribute more gross than WALES NI and Scotland combined ...' and then wrote 'the uk pays a fixed amount to the EU so every man woman and child is deemed to have paid an equal share'. Which is it?

Respect?

One post here includes one accusation of lying and making stuff up. Several actually/ at least read and a ****ing for good measure. There are numerous other posts from yourself that follow this theme. Mull it over. You are getting granted the respect despite your heated and antagonistic posting.

Well bloody thank you sir.

 

[Red Alert]

So in summary, every one of those points I've responded to is based on you reading my post incorrectly and thinking I agree with Cooper's stance. Well bloody played.

Just drop this now as it's not my point of view and you're seemingly arguing with me thinking it is my point of view when I've specifically said it's not.

Drop this!!! you've continued posting and asking questions!!! yes I know what devils advocate means. but asking a question about Nazi Germany as representing democratic values is weirdy weirdy weirdy!! i'm no scholar of politics but Nazi Germany had bugger all to do with democracy!!

 

[BCFCRob]

Drop this!!! you've continued posting and asking questions!!! yes I know what devils advocate means. but asking a question about Nazi Germany as representing democratic values is weirdy weirdy weirdy!! i'm no scholar of politics but Nazi Germany had bugger all to do with democracy!!

Using 4 instances of referendum (asking the people what they want, literally the definition of democracy) to get to power..... has nothing to do with democracy?

 

[Cliftonville]

Using 4 instances of referendum (asking the people what they want, literally the definition of democracy) to get to power..... has nothing to do with democracy?

You might want to think about the mass imprisonments, thousands of executions of political opponents and the removal of the right to vote for millions .. Murderous dictatorship is not democracy.

 

[BCFCRob]

You might want to think about the mass imprisonments, thousands of executions of political opponents and the removal of the right to vote for millions .. Murderous dictatorship is not democracy.

Nope that's a perfectly valid point. But the impact of that was far stronger in the late 30's than the early 30's, and therefore there is still a relevance, in that it proves that 'all referenda must be followed' is not a blanket rule.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Guys, the Brexit issue is just your own opinions on how the UK should be. We all believe that we have the best interests for the UK with our own opinions but we just have different opinions of how is the best. But having different opinions shouldn't mean we all treat each other like s**t. Debate is healthy but arguments breeds divisions and is somewhat a cancer between you all. You've got a great forum. You're all a bunch of good guys. Your team is flying right now. Act as one and don't let these knobs in parliament forget who you all are

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

IMO, Because Parliament is so useless and it's put back to the people, maybe, the only way to bring the country back together again is to have 3 separate votes.
First of all, somehow, Parliament would need to form a group (Leave voters only). They would have a limited time to go off and come up with 3 deals to leave.
The country would vote, one out of the 3 they would prefer.
We (the people) would then have a 2nd vote. The 1st vote verses a NO deal brexit.
The winner of the 2nd Vote would then be up against Remain.
To ensure the quantity of people vote, There must be at least 30 million votes, or it's void and we leave automatically with a No Deal!!!

NB. It's an idea, not what I want, as I believe we had the vote and it should be honored..

I understand what you are saying. I personally don't think there should be any further votes for the people on Brexit. We shouldn't need 2 different votes to get what we chosen in the first place. Why should 'leave' have to win twice or more to actually get acceptance but 'remain' just has to win once?

There needs to be a new PM asap, a Brexiteer. If this new PM wants it to go back to the people again then 'remain' should not be a choice. Should be either May's deal (which is a bad deal) that has already got agreement with the EU or no deal. Or a 3rd choice being a deal that the new PM thinks he/she can get which must include leaving the customs union and single market.

 

[AshtonRed]

I understand what you are saying. I personally don't think there should be any further votes for the people on Brexit. We shouldn't need 2 different votes to get what we chosen in the first place. Why should 'leave' have to win twice or more to actually get acceptance but 'remain' just has to win once?

There needs to be a new PM asap, a Brexiteer. If this new PM wants it to go back to the people again then 'remain' should not be a choice. Should be either May's deal (which is a bad deal) that has already got agreement with the EU or no deal. Or a 3rd choice being a deal that the new PM thinks he/she can get which must include leaving the customs union and single market.

It ain’t got gonna happen, there Will either be some kind of ‘soft’ Brexit , no Brexit, or A50 will be revoked. Democracy is dead mate.

We may as well get used to it.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

It ain’t got gonna happen, there Will either be some kind of ‘soft’ Brexit , no Brexit, or A50 will be revoked. Democracy is dead mate.

We may as well get used to it.

I know it won't. But it should. A soft Brexit is the opposite to what Brexit is as we won't actually leave the EU as a soft Brexit means remaining in the customs union and single market, which was clear at the referendum that leave means leaving the customs union and single market.

Democracy is dead indeed which is why I won't ever vote again. No point even voting for UKIP either because if they win an election, I am sure somehow the minority will demand another vote and succeed.

 

[Red Robin]

I know it won't. But it should. A soft Brexit is the opposite to what Brexit is as we won't actually leave the EU as a soft Brexit means remaining in the customs union and single market, which was clear at the referendum that leave means leaving the customs union and single market.

Democracy is dead indeed which is why I won't ever vote again. No point even voting for UKIP either because if they win an election, I am sure somehow the minority will demand another vote and succeed.

Any body who accepts democracy must vote UKIP and to hell with the monkeys in the Tory and Labour Party they are not interested in what the people have said.

 

[AshtonRed]

I know it won't. But it should. A soft Brexit is the opposite to what Brexit is as we won't actually leave the EU as a soft Brexit means remaining in the customs union and single market, which was clear at the referendum that leave means leaving the customs union and single market.

Democracy is dead indeed which is why I won't ever vote again. No point even voting for UKIP either because if they win an election, I am sure somehow the minority will demand another vote and succeed.

Me neither, we had a bi election last week as our MP died recently, for the first time in my adult life I didn’t vote, nor will I again. Democracy means you honour the result of any vote whether you agree with it or not.

There is absolutely no point voting if those simple principles aren’t honoured.

 

[AshtonRed]

I wouldn’t be able to vote UKIP. I don’t follow them, but my understanding is they are even further to the right now than they were under Nigel Farage , as a left of centre person that’s not at all appealing to me.

 

[wizered]

I wouldn't vote UKIP but Farage nearly swung me a while back because I wanted out but he is now in the wilderness, so stuff them they're all full of crap.

 

[Redprintt]

Ashton, you say you're left of centre.
So if you voted Labour last year ..........
Hoist by your own petard!

Most of the North voted Leave but then voted Labour in last years in the election.

Not saying you did but tribal voting in the general election lost Brexit.

 

[AshtonRed]

The SNP p1as me off too. The UK voted to leave the EU, they are doing all they can to keep us in.

Had they won their vote for Scotland to leave the U.K. I’m sure they would be all for respecting the vote to leave. Hypocrites.

 

[AshtonRed]

Ashton, you say you're left of centre.
So if you voted Labour last year ..........
Hoist by your own petard!

Most of the North voted Leave but then voted Labour in last years in the election.

Not saying you did but tribal voting in the general election lost Brexit.

I did both, ie voted leave and voted labour, my reasoning is the referendum was for Brexit alone, the election was for a wider agenda. I agree with more things Labour stand for than the Tories.
Ironically I joined the Labour Party because I believed the PLP were acting undemocratically in trying to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn (I don’t necessarily agree with him, but he was elected by the members)

Now I believe the MP’s are undemocratically voting down Brexit. I think it’s really dangerous the way they feel they are above having to listen to the will of the people, it scares me where it might lead.

 

[johngalleyfan2]

In the same page you wrote 'England citizens per head contribute more gross than WALES NI and Scotland combined ...' and then wrote 'the uk pays a fixed amount to the EU so every man woman and child is deemed to have paid an equal share'. Which is it?

OK WILL TRY AND SIMPLIFY IT SOME MORE for you...............…
There are 4 countries ENGLAND SCOTLAND NI and WALES [ THATS THE UK ] the GOVERNMENT /CENTRAL OFFICE extracts taxes from the residents of those 4 countries from which it pays the EU its annual "fee" [ granted some in any of the countries may pay more or less tax than average ]
the population of ENGLAND is circa 54.8m plus, SCOTLAND is circa 5.4m WALES is circa 3.1m and NI just circa 1.9m now add together the "other 3 and it is circa 10.4m …. better talk net [2017 ?] is in the region of £9bn ………….
fair shares ….. £2.25 bn each ! no we pay [ central government nett £9 bn ]
population Ratio to Scotland is about 10 /1 Wales 18/1 NI 27/1 or ENGLAND V THE OTHER 3 is 5.4 /1 .
so in the pot goes £5.4m to every £1million raised from the other 3... good job it isn't split 4 ways! for them ! IF IT WAS WE ENGLAND WOULD £MILLIONS BETTER OFF .. NI skint in a week …..

 

[johngalleyfan2]

It ain’t got gonna happen, there Will either be some kind of ‘soft’ Brexit , no Brexit, or A50 will be revoked. Democracy is dead mate.

We may as well get used to it.

send in the tanks ...ive my flak jacket ready along with my pitch fork ….

I want to be on the opposite side to BCFCROB..... I hate losing!

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

I understand what you are saying. I personally don't think there should be any further votes for the people on Brexit. We shouldn't need 2 different votes to get what we chosen in the first place. Why should 'leave' have to win twice or more to actually get acceptance but 'remain' just has to win once?

There needs to be a new PM asap, a Brexiteer. If this new PM wants it to go back to the people again then 'remain' should not be a choice. Should be either May's deal (which is a bad deal) that has already got agreement with the EU or no deal. Or a 3rd choice being a deal that the new PM thinks he/she can get which must include leaving the customs union and single market.

Get what you're saying and I 100% agree with you.......but it was a way (if there's no other way) to try and help bring most of the country together again.
The whole referendum has divided the nation along with families and friends (like you stated on here). In my view, if parliament alone are unable to reunite us then maybe this is the only way...I don't really see, even if we have a new PM or a general election, anything will change.
I thought like you, that Remain should not be a choice, but what deals are there currently? I think if like I said, we all had deals to vote for (because they were decent) then it's more likely we would still come out of the EU, even if it were up against Remain.........don't forget, I did say, that at least 30 million people would have to vote or we go out with a No Deal...