Slow burn versus quick fix

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Surely the slow burn and using the academy to bring players into the first team is working - up to a point. Yes we need to bring players from other teams into the fold also but they should be buying into what the club is doing as a whole and they seem to be doing that. I think this season is a big test for the club whether we go up or not. If we do get promoted, how to we try to stay up? Do we bring the same ilk of players as we have done - young and hungry or do we go for players with that bit more experience of playing in the prem? Maybe we can mix the two - young and hungry players who can't get a game in their teams but that could be costly. I'll leave all those decisions to the ones who are more qualified than me but at the minute, I'll enjoy the football we're playing - even though I get annoyed at times with the results

That really is the conundrum, in fact it's a double conundrum.

Yes, it sounds sensible and pragmatic to bring in that type of player ...

... but who, in reality, would they be.

They'd generally be players who haven't really made it at that level or been relegated with their current club.

Neither are particularly exciting and probably not better than Rigg, Jobe, Cirkin, etc.
 
That really is the conundrum, in fact it's a double conundrum.

Yes, it sounds sensible and pragmatic to bring in that type of player ...

... but who, in reality, would they be.

They'd generally be players who haven't really made it at that level or been relegated with their current club.

Neither are particularly exciting and probably not better than Rigg, Jobe, Cirkin, etc.

Exactly. Personally I think we have about 8 players who have the ability to play in the prem at the minute and who can forget those games against Fulham in the cup a few years ago when we fully matched them at times. If we do go up this season, next season will be a really steep learning curve for these players and I don't doubt that with the togetherness, we will learn
 
It's a really big step to the PL and I think a few of our better players may struggle.

That said, I do like the direction we have went in and the KLD take over has been transformative for our club. There is no doubt about it. Timing is everything though, and if there is a chance to push on due to league dynamics or over achieving a touch, you have to take it.
 
It's a really big step to the PL and I think a few of our better players may struggle.

That said, I do like the direction we have went in and the KLD take over has been transformative for our club. There is no doubt about it. Timing is everything though, and if there is a chance to push on due to league dynamics or over achieving a touch, you have to take it.
You have no choice mate, or they will put you in league 2 just for the laugh.<ok>
 
I totally understand the frustration of people but, in reality, I think the majority of people have accept reality and realise there's little point bringing in safe Championship players who'll muscle their way to the PL. Luton and Sheff Utd looked so bereft in the next league up, their 'style of football' will never succeed and it's humiliating. It's all very well paying off debts and improving/replacing your crumbling stadium but not funny being a laughing stock.
One of the things us exiles feel is the attitude of other fans towards us. Now it is easy enough to say we dont care, but in all honesty it is great when you are talking to say a Forest fan, or Derby fan, and they things like saw your goals at the weekend and they were class, or who is this Rigg lad I keep hearing about. I have been an exile for near enough 35 years and there have been times when we werent even a footnote for clubs around this neck of the woods. We are bring talked about now and folk show an interest and it is because of things like goals and player reputation. Jobe is the talk of every other fan when they ask who I support. It is what is that Bellingham lad like. Then they cant shut me up. To an exile, that sort of stuff is nice.
 
Surely the slow burn and using the academy to bring players into the first team is working - up to a point. Yes we need to bring players from other teams into the fold also but they should be buying into what the club is doing as a whole and they seem to be doing that. I think this season is a big test for the club whether we go up or not. If we do get promoted, how to we try to stay up? Do we bring the same ilk of players as we have done - young and hungry or do we go for players with that bit more experience of playing in the prem? Maybe we can mix the two - young and hungry players who can't get a game in their teams but that could be costly. I'll leave all those decisions to the ones who are more qualified than me but at the minute, I'll enjoy the football we're playing - even though I get annoyed at times with the results
I think we have to look at the younger players and give them a pathway to develop and improve, that way the money keeps coming in as they hopefully outgrow us and we use the money to improve the squad.

If say Bellingham is picked up in the summer for £30 million that's a hell of a lump of money and increases our chances of picking up some serious young talent that may have been out of our price range.

It's all about the balance and we have that about spot on this season with the signings we made.
 
I like seeing the academy lads doing well now and coming through, glad there’s a pathway. Might just be frustrating in the short term watching them make mistakes learning on the job.
Probably the best way a club without parachute payments can grow, look how cheap this team was assembled and how much it’s worth now. Bodes well imo. Never too early to get promoted though and that prem money could transform us
 
One of the things us exiles feel is the attitude of other fans towards us. Now it is easy enough to say we dont care, but in all honesty it is great when you are talking to say a Forest fan, or Derby fan, and they things like saw your goals at the weekend and they were class, or who is this Rigg lad I keep hearing about. I have been an exile for near enough 35 years and there have been times when we werent even a footnote for clubs around this neck of the woods. We are bring talked about now and folk show an interest and it is because of things like goals and player reputation. Jobe is the talk of every other fan when they ask who I support. It is what is that Bellingham lad like. Then they cant shut me up. To an exile, that sort of stuff is nice.

I don't shout the odds but people ask me if I'm going to the match and sometimes notice my little lapel badge ...

... half the village pub follow our results and lots of them watch our games.

It's a nice feeling.
 
Excellent question and thread.

I think for a club like us the sustainable approach is the right one. I think as a community we understand the need for being able to afford what you buy, if that makes sense. We are built that way.

There are several sides to the sustainable model too. First is the infrastructure. Ground, training ground, academy. These are real differentiators in the modern game. Players want elite environments to work in. Think Field of Dreams - If you build it, they will come. We are seeing that now I believe. Jobe, Browne, Isidor, Mepham are all likely examples of players who took account of the environment before deciding we were right for them.

Another element of being sustainable is the academy setup. In my opinion this is the most fundamentally important part of our club. We absolutely must take advantage of the regional talent we have. Long has the North East been considered a footballing hotbed. I honestly believe it still is. Get our academy right and we have a massive advantage. Brentford do not have that, Bournemouth and Brighton arguably less so too. If we are to return to being a top half prem side it will be off the back of academy success imo. The biggest cause for excitement currently for me is the academy lads in the first team. Patto, Neil, Rigg, Watson. Just brilliant. I openly admit I will give these lads more time and patience than those we buy in. The reason is we need to show how that pathway works. I have no doubt that seeing Neil get so much game time at a young age helped convince Rigg this was the right place for him. I also bet Rigg is talking to the next youngun about this being the right place. It is a virtuous circle when you get it right, and we are doing so. Long live the home grown lads being the core of the side for me.

Another aspect is coaching. You have to have a philosophy these days. A clear stlye throughout the club. We may not yet have nailed this, but I am always encouraged to hear Speakman talk about it. Murty is a massive cog in our wheel in my opinion. Quite a coup he is here tbh. Regis seems a good fit so far, and his trust in youth looks great. It would have been easy to take Watson out of the 11 against Sheff Utd but no chance as he seems to value the learning by experience element for young players. We must keep trusting the youngsters to learn. Watson could easily travel to the prem with us and be a key players if we let him hone his game now. Might be a £25m player when we get there too. Coaches have to be allowed to play a long game at times.

Lastly, before I send myself to sleep, is that selling is as important as buying. Brighton are the best at this. They sell a player only when it is right for them, and when they do they have the next lad to slot in seamlessly. They are masters at it. They sell their seeming best players, but then go on to be better. The lads like Speakman and Harvey are the ones resposnible for that side of the game. It is a level of capability way beyond my understanding to be honest. It requires so many folk aligned on the one thing, who will step in when such and such goes? The same for the coach, who will be the next coach if we lose this one. It is a tough gig for Speakman, but he seems to me to be a pretty good fit for us right now.

So bottom line, lets get to the prem, and compete, but with the local lads leading the charge and money from sales to bring in genuine talent that see what our area and club mean. Then we will be successful.

Or Kyril can sell to a Musk and we buy a team of Galacticos to conquer Europe. But only if Dan Neil can still be captain :emoticon-0136-giggl
Good post
But if Kyril was to sell to Elon Musk I would start supporting Reading <laugh>
 
Excellent question and thread.

I think for a club like us the sustainable approach is the right one. I think as a community we understand the need for being able to afford what you buy, if that makes sense. We are built that way.

There are several sides to the sustainable model too. First is the infrastructure. Ground, training ground, academy. These are real differentiators in the modern game. Players want elite environments to work in. Think Field of Dreams - If you build it, they will come. We are seeing that now I believe. Jobe, Browne, Isidor, Mepham are all likely examples of players who took account of the environment before deciding we were right for them.

Another element of being sustainable is the academy setup. In my opinion this is the most fundamentally important part of our club. We absolutely must take advantage of the regional talent we have. Long has the North East been considered a footballing hotbed. I honestly believe it still is. Get our academy right and we have a massive advantage. Brentford do not have that, Bournemouth and Brighton arguably less so too. If we are to return to being a top half prem side it will be off the back of academy success imo. The biggest cause for excitement currently for me is the academy lads in the first team. Patto, Neil, Rigg, Watson. Just brilliant. I openly admit I will give these lads more time and patience than those we buy in. The reason is we need to show how that pathway works. I have no doubt that seeing Neil get so much game time at a young age helped convince Rigg this was the right place for him. I also bet Rigg is talking to the next youngun about this being the right place. It is a virtuous circle when you get it right, and we are doing so. Long live the home grown lads being the core of the side for me.

Another aspect is coaching. You have to have a philosophy these days. A clear stlye throughout the club. We may not yet have nailed this, but I am always encouraged to hear Speakman talk about it. Murty is a massive cog in our wheel in my opinion. Quite a coup he is here tbh. Regis seems a good fit so far, and his trust in youth looks great. It would have been easy to take Watson out of the 11 against Sheff Utd but no chance as he seems to value the learning by experience element for young players. We must keep trusting the youngsters to learn. Watson could easily travel to the prem with us and be a key players if we let him hone his game now. Might be a £25m player when we get there too. Coaches have to be allowed to play a long game at times.

Lastly, before I send myself to sleep, is that selling is as important as buying. Brighton are the best at this. They sell a player only when it is right for them, and when they do they have the next lad to slot in seamlessly. They are masters at it. They sell their seeming best players, but then go on to be better. The lads like Speakman and Harvey are the ones resposnible for that side of the game. It is a level of capability way beyond my understanding to be honest. It requires so many folk aligned on the one thing, who will step in when such and such goes? The same for the coach, who will be the next coach if we lose this one. It is a tough gig for Speakman, but he seems to me to be a pretty good fit for us right now.

So bottom line, lets get to the prem, and compete, but with the local lads leading the charge and money from sales to bring in genuine talent that see what our area and club mean. Then we will be successful.

Or Kyril can sell to a Musk and we buy a team of Galacticos to conquer Europe. But only if Dan Neil can still be captain :emoticon-0136-giggl
Cracking post and just about how I see it. Not sure about the captain mind. :emoticon-0136-giggl
 
The slow burn as you put it is the only way to go. The days of owners being allowed to plough a load of money into clubs is long gone and rightfully so. If Newcastle are barely allowed to spend with their state ownership then why on earth do people think KLD is allowed to spend?

It's all about collecting assets (players) through the market and our academy, developing them, selling them and then restarting the process at a higher level/price point. As a club and especially as a fanbase we need to embrace selling players. It doesn't make us unambitious or whatever other words get thrown around by some, it makes us smart. An unambitious club signs players for big fees and lets them run down their contracts and leave for nothing, like we did for years under Short and Donald.

A small annoyance I have with some of our fans right now is suggesting we miss Clarke because Mundle isn't as good as him. That may be the case but the real question that should be being asked is was Clarke £15m better than Mundle? And was he worth keeping over the money and Mepham? I know the answer to both. It's about improving the team and club not the individual position.

There's always a balance to find between now and the future, I think we found that balance very well in the previous window, but the priority should ALWAYS be the future. It's always about creating a conveyer belt of players that can step in once we sell someone, Mundle for example.

It's funny that the summer 2023 window is widely regarded as terrible, which it was for the short term, yet we signed the player that will collect the clubs largest fee ever in Jobe. That's what I call a slow burn.
 
The slow burn as you put it is the only way to go. The days of owners being allowed to plough a load of money into clubs is long gone and rightfully so. If Newcastle are barely allowed to spend with their state ownership then why on earth do people think KLD is allowed to spend?

It's all about collecting assets (players) through the market and our academy, developing them, selling them and then restarting the process at a higher level/price point. As a club and especially as a fanbase we need to embrace selling players. It doesn't make us unambitious or whatever other words get thrown around by some, it makes us smart. An unambitious club signs players for big fees and lets them run down their contracts and leave for nothing, like we did for years under Short and Donald.

A small annoyance I have with some of our fans right now is suggesting we miss Clarke because Mundle isn't as good as him. That may be the case but the real question that should be being asked is was Clarke £15m better than Mundle? And was he worth keeping over the money and Mepham? I know the answer to both. It's about improving the team and club not the individual position.

There's always a balance to find between now and the future, I think we found that balance very well in the previous window, but the priority should ALWAYS be the future. It's always about creating a conveyer belt of players that can step in once we sell someone, Mundle for example.

It's funny that the summer 2023 window is widely regarded as terrible, which it was for the short term, yet we signed the player that will collect the clubs largest fee ever in Jobe. That's what I call a slow burn.
Summer 2023 focused to much and the future and not enough what we needed. Summer 2024 was a lessons learnt window that addressed failures in the squad but also had 1 eye on the future.

Of the 2024 signings, how many are either still here or wanted?
 
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Summer 2023 focused to much and the future and not enough what we needed. Summer 2024 was a lessons learnt window that addressed failures in the squad but also had 1 eye on the future.

Of the 2024 signings, how many are either still here or wanted?
Jobe and Mayenda are definitely still wanted, then I'd imagine Seelt will be as long as he has recovered properly. Really rate him personally.
 
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Jobe and Mayenda are definitely still wanted, then I'd imagine Seelt will be as long as he has recovered properly. Really rate him personally.
He's going to have a hard time getting back in, probably harder as we signed Mepham.

Jobe and Mayenda I agree with, I'd love Adil and Rusyn to step up, but it's looking unlikely
 
He's going to have a hard time getting back in, probably harder as we signed Mepham.

Jobe and Mayenda I agree with, I'd love Adil and Rusyn to step up, but it's looking unlikely
Yeah I really like Aouchiche but I guess if RLB doesn't trust him then what's the point in him being here. Same for a few players that, we could really trim the squad in January and sign 2 players that would be trusted.