Scotch Independence - the countdown

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Should Scotland be an Independent Country?

  • Yes

  • No

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I've got eight dongs said:
The worrying thing is that more and more people are thinking in this way in a weird circle bringing us right back to Victorian times.

The less charity there is, the better - the less it's required, the less it's focused - the US has a "small state, small welfare, big charity" model.

"I don't see the problem with poorhouses, a welfare state will simply stop these people being productive and philanthropists donating to them."

I'm sure if there was one mass charitable philanthropist covering most of the charity in the UK and he could wilfuly not donate to Protestants cos he didn't like them (like Barnardo in reverse), you'd be beeling.

Having the state provide for the people enables it to be held to account.

"What's the matter with foodbanks?"

FFS.
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I've read.... watched programs....* on how the decline of charities and the rise of the state has led to less compassion from people and the rise of the kind of society we live in today. Everything is the states fault and no one takes responsibility for anything or anyone. In a society which takes care of the less fortunate, and not the faceless state who want 10p off a tax payer to spend 2p on a person who needs it... and spends the rest on the building that houses the civil servant, the civil servants salary, the civil servants final salary pension, IF society (being a volunteer(s) contribute more to charitable acts, then it costs less and benefits the beneficiary more than the state could ever provide.


* for Mick
 
CITIZEN SNIPS said:
I've read.... watched programs....* on how the decline of charities and the rise of the state has led to less compassion from people and the rise of the kind of society we live in today. Everything is the states fault and no one takes responsibility for anything or anyone. In a society which takes care of the less fortunate, and not the faceless state who want 10p off a tax payer to spend 2p on a person who needs it... and spends the rest on the building that houses the civil servant, the civil servants salary, the civil servants final salary pension, IF society (being a volunteer(s) contribute more to charitable acts, then it costs less and benefits the beneficiary more than the state could ever provide.


* for Mick
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What bullshit.

Do you watch children in need ? Comic relief ? Sports relief ?

These programmes break records for donations every time they are on. Our high streets are filled to the gunnells with charity shops. It's not society or the people that has a lack of compasion . It's government who's policies have left the most vulnerable in our society reliant on charity.

You keep banging on about the mighty GB and our wonderful economy yet you think that foodbanks are a joke. Let them eat cake eh.

You're fulla ****e my good man.
 
InnocentAldo said:
What bullshit.

Do you watch children in need ? Comic relief ? Sports relief ?

These programmes break records for donations every time they are on. Our high streets are filled to the gunnells with charity shops. It's not society or the people that has a lack of compasion . It's government who's policies have left the most vulnerable in our society reliant on charity.

You keep banging on about the mighty GB and our wonderful economy yet you think that foodbanks are a joke. Let them eat cake eh.

You're fulla ****e my good man.
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I'm not banging on about the mighty GB. I'm banging on about the might GB's welfare state which grows nearly year on year, but still doesn't seem to satisfy the appetite of the welfare junkies.

My thoughts on social cohesion and involvements come to more than foodbanks. I'm thinking more along the lines of people helping themselves than relying on the state. The taxation and benefit system is a shambles partly because it's so complicated and partly because there is a rape culture there. If people did more for themselves, then they'd get fitter, live longer and be less of a burden on the State, it's win/win.

I'm pressed for time so that probably doesn't read well but you're a spastic.
 
CITIZEN SNIPS said:
I'm not banging on about the mighty GB. I'm banging on about the might GB's welfare state which grows nearly year on year, but still doesn't seem to satisfy the appetite of the welfare junkies.

My thoughts on social cohesion and involvements come to more than foodbanks. I'm thinking more along the lines of people helping themselves than relying on the state. The taxation and benefit system is a shambles partly because it's so complicated and partly because there is a rape culture there. If people did more for themselves, then they'd get fitter, live longer and be less of a burden on the State, it's win/win.

I'm pressed for time so that probably doesn't read well but you're a spastic.
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^^^ Banbury Cross ^^^
 
I've just been in the weirdest meeting with some BT London executive B2B guys trying to sell us a telephony suite.

The questions they brought up about independence were quite interesting (financial governing bodies etc)

Anyway, compassion as related to welfare

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/

...and American public spending trends as % of GDP

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html

Bearing in mind that they have the largest military spending in the world - Federal spending is 20% of GDP - the other 10-20% over the years relates to local spending.

Federal spending (half of the total) is 19% Military Spending (not including their 17% "non direct defence" spending (arming other countries, subsidising arms manufacturers etc).

The recent spikes in federal spending are attempts to compensate interested parties in the Medicare/Obamacare stuff which, given its ultra-private health history, is amongst the most overpriced on the planet.
 
Hearts officials are investigating a “breach of copyright” after fans displayed pro-independence banners including the club crest ahead of Sunday’s Edinburgh derby.

The club said it had “a dim view” of fans using the club’s insignia to promote their political views, and stressed it was “completely non-political” as an organisation.
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http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-hearts-probe-yes-flags-1-3513547
 
Then 15 minutes later...

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I've got eight dongs said:
I've just been in the weirdest meeting with some BT London executive B2B guys trying to sell us a telephony suite.

The questions they brought up about independence were quite interesting (financial governing bodies etc)

Anyway, compassion as related to welfare

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/

...and American public spending trends as % of GDP

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html

Bearing in mind that they have the largest military spending in the world - Federal spending is 20% of GDP - the other 10-20% over the years relates to local spending.

Federal spending (half of the total) is 19% Military Spending (not including their 17% "non direct defence" spending (arming other countries, subsidising arms manufacturers etc).

The recent spikes in federal spending are attempts to compensate interested parties in the Medicare/Obamacare stuff which, given its ultra-private health history, is amongst the most overpriced on the planet.
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Interesting, the stat I had to hand was that in 2011 US state spending was 41% - I'd assumed it would have went up due to the raising of the debt ceiling and Obamacare. When you compare it to Norway spending 44% of GDP you can only think that their citizens are getting a ****e deal for their money (although to be fair Norway's per capita income is much higher, so there's more wealth to milk).
 
MalteseMick said:
Interesting, the stat I had to hand was that in 2011 US state spending was 41% - I'd assumed it would have went up due to the raising of the debt ceiling and Obamacare. When you compare it to Norway spending 44% of GDP you can only think that their citizens are getting a ****e deal for their money (although to be fair Norway's per capita income is much higher, so there's more wealth to milk).
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It was.

And there public spending is forecast to go up (like, scarily up) mainly due to Medicare (highlighting the benefit we have of an NHS).

Check this

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The thing is that, proportionally, Norway doesn't spend a fortune on its military or on international ventures to secure its private interests (as far as I know).

America will totally trim its public spending over the next few years - it has to.

I think they should spend less on "defense" but I suspect they wont.
 
The difference between Norway and the UK.

LONDON – The famed custom tailors of Savile Row have a new landlord.

Norway’s oil fund, the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, is adding to its collection of high-end real estate by acquiring a 57.8 percent interest in the Pollen Estate, a parcel of properties in London’s elegant Mayfair district that includes Savile Row, the street renowned the world over for its bespoke suits.
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They set up an oil fund. Our government (whether Tory or Labour) didn't. An independent Scotland will set up an oil fund.
 
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