Scotch Independence - the countdown

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Should Scotland be an Independent Country?

  • Yes

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
DevAdvocate said:
Naw, it makes perfect sense for the chancellor of the UK to further alienate the people of Scotland by talking about "The North" as if Scotland did not exist. Let's pour money into "The North" so they can get to London faster and **** everyone else.
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The same thing will apply if Scotland gets independence for ****s sake.

How ****in naieve can you be??
 
Gambol said:
Nope. You'll be the first to know.
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Come on Gambol, the Chancellor is promising £7bn investment in "The North", that surely tips it in favour of the Better Together campaign? After all us Northerners will be getting a new railway all the way from Manchester (In the North) to the centre of the known Universe, aka London.
 
DevAdvocate said:
Come on Gambol, the Chancellor is promising £7bn investment in "The North", that surely tips it in favour of the Better Together campaign? After all us Northerners will be getting a new railway all the way from Manchester (In the North) to the centre of the known Universe, aka London.
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<laugh>.
 
DevAdvocate said:
A so-called HS3 high-speed rail link between Manchester and Leeds could help to create a "northern global powerhouse", George Osborne has said.
He told the BBC better road and rail links would allow cities across northern England from Liverpool to Hull "to take on the world", as London did.
The chancellor said the plan could cost up to £7bn - but could be cheaper if existing rail lines were updated. Labour said "nobody" believed the Tories could deliver jobs in the north. Mr Osborne told BBC Radio 4's Today programme - before a speech in Manchester - that the cities in the North of England were individually strong but were "collectively not strong enough".

He said that in the past few decades giant global cities, such as London, had emerged - and that the string of northern cities, with better transport links and careful planning, could take them on and be "greater than the sum of their parts". Mr Osborne said the building of the east-west link should be considered as part of a review into the second phase of the £50bn HS2 high-speed rail project. The current plan for the first phase of the project between London and Birmingham has proved controversial. Some residents are set to be disrupted and there is criticism of its price tag. The government's preferred route for the second phase involves extensions linking Birmingham with Manchester and Leeds - with the final route expected to be chosen by the end of this year.

Mr Osborne said in his speech that it was not "healthy for our economy, not good for our country" if "the powerhouse of London dominates more and more". Along with improving roads - the M62 already links Liverpool on the west coast with Hull on the east coast, via Manchester and Leeds - Mr Osborne says a new high-speed rail link should be considered, based on the existing rail route but with new tunnels and infrastructure. The fastest rail services between Leeds and Manchester currently take about 50 minutes - already quicker than many journeys across London. "We need an ambitious plan to make the cities and towns here in this northern belt radically more connected from east to west - to create the equivalent of travelling around a single global city. "I want us to start thinking about whether to build a new high-speed rail connection east-west from Manchester to Leeds."

BBC political correspondent Vicki Young says Conservative support in the North of England has been declining and Mr Osborne's statement will be seen as an attempt to show the party is keen to increase prosperity beyond its traditional strongholds in the south. There is, however, little detail about how these plans would be funded, and Mr Osborne said he did not yet have timescales - but he wanted "to start a conversation". Mr Osborne also told the BBC he wanted to see new positions of elected mayoralties being created - including one for Greater Manchester along the lines of London's - to help drive forward economic growth in the north. For Labour, shadow chancellor Mr Balls said regional growth divides had "widened markedly since 2010", when the coalition government was formed. "On high-speed rail, we said months ago that we need value for money for the taxpayer and to improve the existing plans to maximise the benefits for the whole country, and strengthen the links between northern cities. Ministers need finally to start listening."
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He's not talking about the North of the UK, but the North of England.

Does every single government project have to include Scotland now? You'd still vote for independence anyways <doh>
 
Toby said:
He's not talking about the North of the UK, but the North of England.

Does every single government project have to include Scotland now? You'd still vote for independence anyways
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The whole argument itself shows why Scotland should go independent - the English can't develop their own country without having to worry about Scottish perceptions of fairness. The UK Government will probably have to chuck a few billion towards some Scottish project just to shut them up.
 
Toby said:
He's not talking about the North of the UK, but the North of England.

Does every single government project have to include Scotland now? You'd still vote for independence anyways
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Wow, Toby in response shocker!!!!

Indeed, not every single project has to take account of Scotland but when one like HS2 (and now HS3) will be to the detriment of Scottish Businesses - using UK Taxpayers cash no less, then I think it's yet another good argument for Independence.

And perhaps you could tell me where i've ever said i'm going to vote Yes? <confused> I don't recall doing so, like many, i'm as yet undecided.
 
DevAdvocate said:
Wow, Toby in response shocker!!!!

Indeed, not every single project has to take account of Scotland but when one like HS2 (and now HS3) will be to the detriment of Scottish Businesses - using UK Taxpayers cash no less, then I think it's yet another good argument for Independence.

And perhaps you could tell me where i've ever said i'm going to vote Yes? <confused> I don't recall doing so, like many, i'm as yet undecided.
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Should we be in uproar every time there's a project in Scotland because our taxpayer money is not being invested on us? That's the whole point of tax, it gets shared amongst the population. A lot of it goes on London, maybe, but it's where it costs the most to build/improve/modernise public services.

There would be no point in improving the train line from Glasgow to London, the cost would be ****ed and the time saved pointless vs cheap internal flights. What they're trying to do here is improve transport links between large English cities in the North of the country, and it's something everyone holds against the Tories. I hate them with a passion but this is something that's needed.

What should they do then? Not refer to the 'North of England' but call it 'the bit of England nearest to Scotland'? Not spend any money on England until everyone in Scotland is against Independence? I really can't see the point you're trying to make...
 
The Scottish taxpayers' share of HS2 comes to approximately £4,000,000,000.

Looking at that alongside the "startup costs" we've been hearing about, the part of HS2 we're paying for (but won't receive, obviously) would be enough to set up our own infrastructure over 21 times.

Christ knows we haven't received **** all for giving you the money for that hideous M25 monstrosity yet.
 
Toby said:
Should we be in uproar every time there's a project in Scotland because our taxpayer money is not being invested on us? That's the whole point of tax, it gets shared amongst the population. A lot of it goes on London, maybe, but it's where it costs the most to build/improve/modernise public services.

There would be no point in improving the train line from Glasgow to London, the cost would be ****ed and the time saved pointless vs cheap internal flights. What they're trying to do here is improve transport links between large English cities in the North of the country, and it's something everyone holds against the Tories. I hate them with a passion but this is something that's needed.

What should they do then? Not refer to the 'North of England' but call it 'the bit of England nearest to Scotland'? Not spend any money on England until everyone in Scotland is against Independence? I really can't see the point you're trying to make...
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Exactly, time for a divorce, we don't even like each other anymore.
 
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