Scotch Independence - the countdown

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Should Scotland be an Independent Country?

  • Yes

  • No

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...and to think, if we were having this discussion two or three years ago, the level of misinformation was such that the English would be moaning about the agriculture costs of the Barnett formula and claiming Scotland lives off the English taxpayer.

We've been milked like a bitch's tit then told to say thank you because we were lied to and told that most of the milk was being donated from a philanthropic English taxpayer.

Load of ****e.

See yeez later.
 
Toby said:
Should we be in uproar every time there's a project in Scotland because our taxpayer money is not being invested on us? That's the whole point of tax, it gets shared amongst the population. A lot of it goes on London, maybe, but it's where it costs the most to build/improve/modernise public services.

There would be no point in improving the train line from Glasgow to London, the cost would be ****ed and the time saved pointless vs cheap internal flights. What they're trying to do here is improve transport links between large English cities in the North of the country, and it's something everyone holds against the Tories. I hate them with a passion but this is something that's needed.

What should they do then? Not refer to the 'North of England' but call it 'the bit of England nearest to Scotland'? Not spend any money on England until everyone in Scotland is against Independence? I really can't see the point you're trying to make...
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Who said there was an uproar, i'm simply pointing out that another £7b is being pissed down the drain to take 10 minutes off the journey time between Manchester and London. I also recall when the Channel tunnel was planned there was a promise of an eventual link up to Scotland which was canned because it was considered uneconomic. So maybe you are right and we Scots should just jump on a plane when we plan to visit London?

As for the point i'm trying to make I thought it was pretty clear, this Government (and previous ones) is creating a modern rail system using VAST amounts of cash, but only in England. As I said, it's pretty much everyone else can go **** themselves.
 
DevAdvocate said:
As for the point i'm trying to make I thought it was pretty clear, this Government (and previous ones) is creating a modern rail system using VAST amounts of cash, but only in England. As I said, it's pretty much everyone else can go **** themselves.
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The thing is, they're telling the English to go **** themselves as well unless they're already wealthy.

We have more expensive Council Tax rates than down south - but that is mainly due to the fact that our water rates are included and we pay a bit extra for free prescriptions, extra NHS spending etc etc.

Thing is, Scottish water is the cheapest anywhere in the UK for its customers.

Why?

Because we and the old Strathclyde Water board objected so strongly to it being privatised (in 1994).

We are still benefiting from the non-full privitisation of the Water boards that they saw in England.

Have you been in an NHS hospital in England recently?

They're ****ing shocking compared to ours yet, the discrepancy between what they have and what they should have will be blamed on the NHS instead of being blamed on the outsourcing of it.

They're "creating wealth" quicker than we are which is fine and dandy - people need to realise that creating wealth and believing in trickle down economics doesn't make it any truer than believing in God. Wealth is an abstract concept - not an absolute number. If you have the same money as you did yesterday but the guy next to you has more, you are poorer - not because of jealousy or relativism, but because the prices you pay for things will be scaled up in line with the market forces created by the guy next to you (see London house prices etc etc)

We have much better public services already because the English have had theirs plundered to ****.

Unless we vote Yes, we're next.
 
Biggus Diccus said:
The thing is, they're telling the English to go **** themselves as well unless they're already wealthy.

We have more expensive Council Tax rates than down south - but that is mainly due to the fact that our water rates are included and we pay a bit extra for free prescriptions, extra NHS spending etc etc.

Thing is, Scottish water is the cheapest anywhere in the UK for its customers.

Why?

Because we and the old Strathclyde Water board objected so strongly to it being privatised (in 1994).

We are still benefiting from the non-full privitisation of the Water boards that they saw in England.

Have you been in an NHS hospital in England recently?

They're ****ing shocking compared to ours yet, the discrepancy between what they have and what they should have will be blamed on the NHS instead of being blamed on the outsourcing of it.

They're "creating wealth" quicker than we are which is fine and dandy - people need to realise that creating wealth and believing in trickle down economics doesn't make it any truer than believing in God. Wealth is an abstract concept - not an absolute number. If you have the same money as you did yesterday but the guy next to you has more, you are poorer - not because of jealousy or relativism, but because the prices you pay for things will be scaled up in line with the market forces created by the guy next to you (see London house prices etc etc)

We have much better public services already because the English have had theirs plundered to ****.

Unless we vote Yes, we're next.
Click to expand...

This, all of this <ok>
 
Biggus Diccus said:
The thing is, they're telling the English to go **** themselves as well unless they're already wealthy.

We have more expensive Council Tax rates than down south - but that is mainly due to the fact that our water rates are included and we pay a bit extra for free prescriptions, extra NHS spending etc etc.

Thing is, Scottish water is the cheapest anywhere in the UK for its customers.

Why?

Because we and the old Strathclyde Water board objected so strongly to it being privatised (in 1994).

We are still benefiting from the non-full privitisation of the Water boards that they saw in England.

Have you been in an NHS hospital in England recently?

They're ****ing shocking compared to ours yet, the discrepancy between what they have and what they should have will be blamed on the NHS instead of being blamed on the outsourcing of it.

They're "creating wealth" quicker than we are which is fine and dandy - people need to realise that creating wealth and believing in trickle down economics doesn't make it any truer than believing in God. Wealth is an abstract concept - not an absolute number. If you have the same money as you did yesterday but the guy next to you has more, you are poorer - not because of jealousy or relativism, but because the prices you pay for things will be scaled up in line with the market forces created by the guy next to you (see London house prices etc etc)

We have much better public services already because the English have had theirs plundered to ****.

Unless we vote Yes, we're next.
Click to expand...

I was specifically talking about Rail though Bib, i've no doubt plenty of people/areas of England are getting the Joan Collins special off this mob, it's the ****ing lies that get me, how HS2 will benefit EVERYONE. Anyone who believes that needs their ****ing bumps felt.
 
The biggest, and most damaging effect HS2 has isn't one that is inherently obvious. It's a rather more insidious, long-term effect &#8211; that of continuing 'London-centricity'. The entirety of HS2 is designed simply to connect major cities to London, and make commuting there and back quicker. Why is this a problem? I hear you cry! Well, by constantly encouraging people to commute to London you create a number of problems...

1) You continue to make it exceedingly expensive to live in. Living costs in London and the suburbs around it are already significantly higher than those of the rest of the UK, and by channeling more people down from the North on HS2 these costs are only to rise even further

2) We end up with London as our centre of industry (which it already is now, but to an even greater extent) but with a few 'favoured cities' elsewhere. Why locate yourself in a city that isn't on the route of HS2? Why bother to build your offices in Liverpool, or a factory near Leicester when you're actively going out of your way to avoid the 'benefits' of HS2 if you do so?

3) You make it harder for people to commute from cities that are currently on the ECML or the WCML, as the services running through cities like Coventry will be reduced. Why? Well, if you're actively pushing everyone on to HS2 then those trains will be emptier, thus pushing up ticket prices on other routes, and reducing the number of trains running. It might make it easier for a businessman in Birmingham to commute to London, but far harder for anyone in the rest of the Midlands who now have to go out of their way to change in Birmingham to take HS2.
Click to expand...

http://theyorker.co.uk/comment/opinion/society/10089-high-speed-rail-a-raw
 
DevAdvocate said:
I was specifically talking about Rail though Bib, i've no doubt plenty of people/areas of England are getting the Joan Collins special off this mob, it's the ****ing lies that get me, how HS2 will benefit EVERYONE. Anyone who believes that needs their ****ing bumps felt.
Click to expand...

No one believes that for a second. I doubt even Osbourne was implying it. You're just reading in to it too much.

It'll help the economies in the cities of the north of England, probably, and if you're denying that then you've never taken a train in this country. They deserve their share of cash too.
 
DevAdvocate said:
I was specifically talking about Rail though Bib, i've no doubt plenty of people/areas of England are getting the Joan Collins special off this mob, it's the ****ing lies that get me, how HS2 will benefit EVERYONE. Anyone who believes that needs their ****ing bumps felt.
Click to expand...

Something is smelling of rotten eggs here.
 
Toby said:
No one believes that for a second. I doubt even Osbourne was implying it. You're just reading in to it too much.

It'll help the economies in the cities of the north of England, probably, and if you're denying that then you've never taken a train in this country. They deserve their share of cash too.
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And yet the official HS2 report stated that everyone will benefit?


"HS2 has the potential to transform the economic shape of the UK"
http://hs2.org.uk/what-hs2/economic-benefits-jobs


Even the Transport Secretary said as much last year:

"The HS2 high-speed rail project will bring benefits to the whole UK, the transport secretary has said."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24596181

And Osborne himself said in that statement &#8220;&#8220;The whole is less than the sum of its parts. So the powerhouse of London dominates more and more. That&#8217;s not healthy for our economy. It&#8217;s not good for our country.&#8221;

So he was talking about the whole of the UK it seems. <confused>
 
DevAdvocate said:
And yet the official HS2 report stated that everyone will benefit?


"HS2 has the potential to transform the economic shape of the UK"
http://hs2.org.uk/what-hs2/economic-benefits-jobs


Even the Transport Secretary said as much last year:

"The HS2 high-speed rail project will bring benefits to the whole UK, the transport secretary has said."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24596181

And Osborne himself said in that statement &#8220;&#8220;The whole is less than the sum of its parts. So the powerhouse of London dominates more and more. That&#8217;s not healthy for our economy. It&#8217;s not good for our country.&#8221;

So he was talking about the whole of the UK it seems. <confused>
Click to expand...

<laugh> <laugh>

You sure you're not Medro?

Osborne was talking about England in the bit you quoted, keep on digging <applause>

Transforming the economic shape of the UK doesn't necessarily imply that EVERYONE in the UK is going to benefit. Unless you're talking about improved tax returns IF it's built and IF it's a success, but then me farting could have a beneficial effect on the UK too if you're looking that far into it.

I love it when you desperately try and prove something right that you've ballsed up :)
 
Toby said:
You sure you're not Medro?

Osborne was talking about England in the bit you quoted, keep on digging

Transforming the economic shape of the UK doesn't necessarily imply that EVERYONE in the UK is going to benefit. Unless you're talking about improved tax returns IF it's built and IF it's a success, but then me farting could have a beneficial effect on the UK too if you're looking that far into it.

I love it when you desperately try and prove something right that you've ballsed up :)
Click to expand...

You are a cretin. I don't know why i'm wasting my time, I won't waste any more.
 
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