Scotch Independence - the countdown
- Thread starter stopmeandslapme
- Start date
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Have the English team at the Commonwealth Games been told to make sure they don't win gold? Admittedly that won't be too tall an order for most of them to fulfill.
Socialism needs Nationalism - you can't have a group of people working for the common good without having a group mentality, a pride in the group, a belief that the common good of the group is more important than individual wants and needs - all Nationalistic traits.
I knew you'd come back with either a < doh > smiley, or another comment which doesn't refute the point I made at all.
You made a bullshit comment, why the **** would I bother trying to break it down, I'd rather work to be honest
Have a little read up on socialism and nationalism first, then teach your mate Kirung what a 'Utopia' is and what the word actually means.
Oh, and please give Dev some attention, I have better things to do than interact with a barely literate shaved Ewok.
Why is it bullshit - it's only a sentence or two - surely it's not that difficult to articulate a fairly simple rebuttal?
Because of the bits I highlighted.
You said Socialism needs Nationalism because of a few traits you listed. Those traits are not solely linked to Nationalism, yet you make the claim that Socialism needs Nationalism to work.
I don't need to go any further.
Yes Socialism needs Nationalism - you need everyone working for the common good of the group. In Socialist countries such as Norway they force immigrants to attend naturalisation classes, to learn the Norwegian language, to learn about the history of the country. They are trying to turn immigrants into Norwegians - if national identity was not important to social cohesion why would they do that? They recognise that humans are naturally distrustful of people from outside their groups, so they attempt to bring outsiders into the fold - you have to leave your old group, whatever that may be, and become 'one of us'. When you create a large social state you need everyone to believe it's fair - that immigrants just don't get to pop in and sign on without having contributed. The belief in the whole system falls apart when half the people in the dole queue have different skin pigmentations and can't speak the fricken language.
Don't take my word for it, a direct quote from David Miliband was: "The left is torn between a commitment to individual human rights for all people, whatever their nationality, and a recognition that communities depend on deep roots."
EDGE.
Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023
You're making a common mistake, which is taking an example of socialism in practice and trying to fit it into your argument. The whole point of socialism is that you work as a team for the greater good, irrespective of nationality/race/gender/etc...
David Miliband is not a socialist
Indeed - I was in Bergen a few years back and went to Mass. The entire congregation was fillipino and the service was in Norwegian. It was all a bit surreal.
EDGE.
Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023
You are making the common Utopian Left mistake of telling people how they should behave, rather than trying to organise a system around how people actually do behave. Humans are not blank slates, you don't get to remake Human nature in your own image - they don't like people outside their group because they are silly territorial mammals and no amount of Leftist postulating will get over such natural biases.
'Socialism', as a concept, has nothing to do with how people feel at the time. Systems come and go, we will definitely reach a point in the near(-ish) future when mankind as a whole has a bit of a rethink about how things work, and socialism is the future
