Has to be one of the most decorated defenders in football history, has won everything (some on multiple occasions). Has been comfortably the best CB in the world for a few seasons. Definitely should be in the conversation for one of the best of all time
Not something I've thought about but when you put it like that there's certainly an argument to be made
Okay, now you've toned it down a bit, you're making more sense. I don't think anyone would argue against him being one of the best defenders of his era. Personally I have issues with such labels anyway (GOAT). Very American. Firstly, there is no single greatest of all time, when it comes to individuals. Teams yes, but players no. Too many variables to take into consideration. And who are we (anyone under the age of 40), to pass judgement on anyone who came before our era, without having ever seen them play?
It's a bit simplistic to suggest that the 'most decorated' players in the world are therefore the greatest. Ramos is kinda fortunate to have been playing for Spain and Real Madrid during fruitful generations for both of them. Yes, I know he contributed to that. I'm not trying to take it away from him. But look at, say, Gareth Bale. Playing for Wales, he's ****ed when it comes to these type of arguments.
I agree and I've always said you can't judge someone like Pele against Messi. If you could get a time machine and pick Pele up and drop him in a top level game now he would look terrible. The speed of the game/fitness levels would completely pass him by. If a baby was born now with Pele's talent then he would reach the top, but it is so hard to compare.
Well no as people talk about George Best as one of the greatest and he never played in a World Cup (I think). Club football is far more important for these conversations as you get signed by the top clubs which shows your level of ability, rather than only being able to play for one team based on your nationality. It also makes it far harder to stay in a top team as you have potential competition from everywhere. To play at Real Madrid for 13 seasons is not exactly easy, well I guess you could say 11 seasons as I think he must've missed a couple of seasons worth of games due to suspensions
How I see it is Xavi and Iniesta are 2 of most complete footballers EVER, and haven’t won a single Ballon d’Or between them yet Messi has won it 5 times by him self in the same team. Take away those 2 would Barcelona of been the team they were and enabled Messi to win those awards, my guess would be no.
Just read somewhere 25 red cards!!! Re: George Best. Definitely Brits talk about him as being one of the best. I'm not sure how highly regarded he was internationally. He was my Dad's favourite player for sure, but I think the whole N.Ireland thing definitely prevented him from being considered up there with the very best. It has to have done. Especially back in the day when there was no internet and only **** TV. These days it's different, because of the level of exposure the top teams get. Re: Decorated players. They say that you are never truly a great until you win an international tournament etc. Even with the likes Messi, people say, ah yeah, but he's never won the WC etc. But if Messi was Spanish, he would have done. Simple as that. Does that make him a better player?
Surely nationality has nothing to do with how great an individual player is. World Cups aren’t often won by individual players, with the possible exception of Maradona in 1986. At club level, though, over the course of ten or twelve seasons, individual greatness can shine through, and for the 11 years he played for Manchester United, George Best was without doubt one of the greatest ever, in my lifetime anyway.
Well that’s more a reflection on the idiots in charge of the England team than on Mr Le Tissier, I would say.
Think you misunderstand slightly. I'm not saying nationality affects how good a player is - ability-wise. I'm just stating the obvious, that coming from a minor nation limits one's chances of making a mark on the international stage. And it is on the international stage, that - fairly or not - the greats come to be considered 'the greatest'.
And I disagree. George Best would have graced any team in any World Cup, but his nationality didn’t stop him being one of the greatest ever.
