The yellow was flashing.. I maintain that had the JCb been more efficient with removing Sutil's car then we might have been discussing this today. I belive something went wrong...some commentator said the JCB seemed to be stuck.. whatever it was it took too long in the recovery process. These things need to be done quickly and more more efficient. It just seems as though it is one of these incidents where there was a little problem with the recovery vehicle and unfortunately Bianchi crashed before they could recover the first car.
RIP Jules Bianchi
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The yellow was flashing.. I maintain that had the JCb been more efficient with removing Sutil's car then we might have been discussing this today. I belive something went wrong...some commentator said the JCB seemed to be stuck.. whatever it was it took too long in the recovery process. These things need to be done quickly and more more efficient. It just seems as though it is one of these incidents where there was a little problem with the recovery vehicle and unfortunately Bianchi crashed before they could recover the first car.
I think the JCB was reversing at the moment of impact and Jules hit the rear sort of diagonally head on. The only official report I've heard is that he's critical but stable. The rest is just rumours so hopefully he can make a recovery, we really have no idea what the actual injury is though.
TomTom94
Well-Known Member
On that note, there is a Youtube video of Bianchi's crash that is doing the rounds. I'm not going to link it here because I would feel extremely uncomfortable watching it but from people who have watched it, it's clear where the head-on/side-on confusion comes from, he kind of hit it diagonally. If he'd gone a few inches to the left he'd have hit it head-on and almost certainly have been killed on the spot. Scary.
With the history of that corner in the wet, it was surprising they allowed the car to be recovered without an SC covering it.
Brundle got lucky in 1994 as he missed the JCB, as could be said of the marshall he hit instead as he also survived, or be it with broken legs if I remember correctly. There is a known 'river' that flows across that corner, so if one car could aquaplane there then the possibility of more doing so would be heightened.
Whilst there has been criticism of too many SC's breaking up a race, it seems in some situation where it is obvious an SC was needed (I think Sutil again spinning in Germnay and his car stranded in the middle of the final corner), there appears to be an inconsistency as to when it is deployed.
Cosi, who has the ultimate say on the SC? Charlie or the stewards?
TomTom94
Well-Known Member
I'm not cosi (let's not start impersonating each other again) but it's Charlie who has the ultimate authority to call for it, I believe. The Clerk of the Course is in charge of actually making it happen but he is subordinate to both the race director and the chief steward.
[1]
Yes, Saints; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
However, as I intended to say in my earlier post, my personal fears were immediate, i.e. before Bianchi was even on his fateful lap and probably about a minute before impact. In this sense, and for this particular incident, hindsight only leaves me sickened. I feel like saying more, such as "it really should not have happened" but I think I already have and know I'm going around in circles. The indecision (or decision to delay) made me feel I was watching a bad-dream play out, together with the impending sense of doom such dreams can hold. When I saw the commotion at the back of the truck from the closest camera at the circuit (the view was oblique and blocked by the tyre barrier), I wanted to wake-up – because long before Bianchi did not come around to complete his lap, I sensed something awful. Tragically, it was only after this that the Safety Car was deployed…
[2]
Recovery vehicles have come out without further incident far too often. Incidents like this have also occurred far too often. It's just that in F1 they happen less because the organisation (and standard of driving) are far better than at most other events – even including others organised by the FIA.
[3]
I agree.
Unfortunately, one might argue that complacency is a consequence of generally improved safety standards, despite the fact that a few 'old-school' tracks, (including Spa and Suzuka, for instance), remain less sanitised. It is surely no coincidence that these very same circuits tend to be preferred by spectators; and that criticisms are often directed at efforts to make things safer, since they encourage drivers to deliberately exploit the extra safety, thus partially negating it! After all, one's concept of safety and danger is built upon one's experience of both…
Further to my last, it is possible I owe Max Chilton a big apology for a far more serious human error: indeed, something which truly beggars belief.
It seems the marshal post closest to the crash-site was waving a green flag immediately prior to Bianchi's arrival. I should add that I do not know whether (but personally doubt) this can be said for the preceding marshal post.
As if that were not bad enough (and truly, I can scarcely believe what I am typing), it appears this person continued to wave a green flag long after Bianchi had almost been decapitated, right up to until the Safety Car was eventually deployed…
In the UK, we are used to very high standards from our volunteer marshals. But, whether or not it may have affected the outcome of yesterday's tragedy, it appears something went seriously wrong with the signals being given out from the Dunlop Curve.
It seems the marshal post closest to the crash-site was waving a green flag immediately prior to Bianchi's arrival. I should add that I do not know whether (but personally doubt) this can be said for the preceding marshal post.
As if that were not bad enough (and truly, I can scarcely believe what I am typing), it appears this person continued to wave a green flag long after Bianchi had almost been decapitated, right up to until the Safety Car was eventually deployed…
In the UK, we are used to very high standards from our volunteer marshals. But, whether or not it may have affected the outcome of yesterday's tragedy, it appears something went seriously wrong with the signals being given out from the Dunlop Curve.
I watched it too and it looks much worse than I had thought, much faster and the car hitting violently down the left side. I'm surprised he survived, and lucky that he didn't hit any marshalls. How stupid to bring on the tractor without the safety car in those conditions.
I'm not sure I want to watch it, what would I gain from it? Like Saints said it is someone getting hurt. Cosi thanks for your opinion on the JCB, I still think it shouldn't have been positioned at the dunlop curve with so little laps left... unnecessary, Adrian had got out and scampered away. Hitting another F1 car wouldn't be as catastrophic as hitting a multiple tonne digger that wouldn't be scratched.
SaintsForTheWin:7159096 said:
I don't take any pleasure in seeing it, but answers a few questions and raises many others.
A feeling of sadness! Something I would rather not feel, I will watch the video of him leaving the hospital though.
I've never gasped at an F1 incident in my life, seeing the video of Bianchi's crash left me speechless and sick to my stomach. If you haven't seen it: 1) The crash is actually worse than you think it is, 2) He is very lucky to be even alive at this very moment. 3) He hit the truck so hard he lifted a 3 ton machine above his head, 4) He hit that truck head on with his head,...
Sick to my stomach atm.
Sick to my stomach atm.
It is extremely brutal... there's just no other way to put it. It leaves me amazed that he survived the initial impact.
That cannot be allowed to come about again.
That cannot be allowed to come about again.
Just watched the video, could not believe how bad it was, actually made me feel sick. The fact that he wasn't killed instantly is frankly a huge testament to the safety of the current generation of F1 cars, daft as that might sound.
For me one of the most questionable decisions was whether it was worth attempting recovery of Sutil's car at all. It's a known blackspot in the wet, we've seen "aquaplaning pile-ups" in the past, and conditions were worsening, so what was the point attempting a rapid recovery?
Even if the safety car was deployed immediately then there would have been a period where cars weren't behind it, and this accident occurred about 2 minutes after Sutil crashed, as they were together on track when Sutil went off. As soon as they knew Sutil was ok and out of the car then they should have left his car in situ until the conditions (weather and safety precautions) made a recovery more sensible. As it is they rushed to remove a relatively small, lightweight hazard with a larger one including a JCB and several lives.
For me one of the most questionable decisions was whether it was worth attempting recovery of Sutil's car at all. It's a known blackspot in the wet, we've seen "aquaplaning pile-ups" in the past, and conditions were worsening, so what was the point attempting a rapid recovery?
Even if the safety car was deployed immediately then there would have been a period where cars weren't behind it, and this accident occurred about 2 minutes after Sutil crashed, as they were together on track when Sutil went off. As soon as they knew Sutil was ok and out of the car then they should have left his car in situ until the conditions (weather and safety precautions) made a recovery more sensible. As it is they rushed to remove a relatively small, lightweight hazard with a larger one including a JCB and several lives.
DHCanary:7159218 said:
That was pretty much my thoughts too. I really hope he makes it and makes a full recovery... hopefully with no memory of the dreadful incident.