Riot thread

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There are too many points made above for me to answer individually without being boring. You may not believe it but I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but my point is we have to stay within the bounds of civilised society.

Life perhaps needs to mean life and so many other changes to the legal system - but let us argue for changes that stand the test of cold rather than hot headed scrutiny - if I were a policeman in today's society I would top myself - they do a great job and see guilty men walk on a technicality - punishments need a complete review and we need to be able to fast track - within Dan's European Rights certain crimes - not abandon people's rights but make sure the Courts sit at the first opportunity. I still believe it would take just one Life Sentence to be handed down to make most of the little cowards go crying back to their mummies.
 
I had a chat this afternoon to my French neighbour about the riots and her view is that when trouble of a similar nature breaks out over here the police will stand off for a time, give warnings to the thugs to get off the streets and if they don't, go in hard, handguns waving. Her theory is that the young want everything but are not prepared to work hard enough to buy them. If arrested you might find yourself in a holding centre that is extremely uncomfortable for a couple of months while the case against you is prepared.

Unemployment amongst the young is higher here than in the UK, but she tells me that there are jobs, not ones that you might want to do, but they are there. Those who really want to, find two or even three low paid jobs simply to buy the things that they want.

She had been watching the French coverage of the UK trouble, and was hoping that our children and grandchildren were safe. This seemed a bit of a puzzle until I gathered that her knowledge of English geography is a little lacking, when it emerged that she thought that Leeds was a suburb of London.
 
Norway - I gave it careful consideration and waited quite a while before posting the thread - but happen to have a difference of opinion to you. Is your view more valid than mine as you are Mod? reading Syd's request it seemed he did not want multiple threads on this on each site - and you can contain it to one.

Unlike me you have the power to delete my thread and posts so you are in ultimate control. I have not seen anyone other than you argue against this thread - to me it is better to have it in one place where people bored with the topic can ignore it. When it is in the Nest we cannot. What is the point in having threads if everything has to go into just one?

Shall we just agree to differ and remian on good terms :)
 
HornArt said:
I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but my point is we have to stay within the bounds of civilised society.
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I suspect that you may mean within the bounds of what a civilised society is perceived to be? What is currently being repeated ad nauseum on tv certainly doesn't indicate 'civilised' to me or anyone of my acquaintance. There have always been those who push the boundaries by stepping over the line - human nature I suppose, but too many are leaping over the line these days, sticking two fingers up to society whilst they're doing it, with no hope of stepping back again. Whilst we let them, there will be no such thing as civilised society IMO.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I had a chat this afternoon to my French neighbour about the riots and her view is that when trouble of a similar nature breaks out over here the police will stand off for a time, give warnings to the thugs to get off the streets and if they don't, go in hard, handguns waving. Her theory is that the young want everything but are not prepared to work hard enough to buy them. If arrested you might find yourself in a holding centre that is extremely uncomfortable for a couple of months while the case against you is prepared.

Unemployment amongst the young is higher here than in the UK, but she tells me that there are jobs, not ones that you might want to do, but they are there. Those who really want to, find two or even three low paid jobs simply to buy the things that they want.

She had been watching the French coverage of the UK trouble, and was hoping that our children and grandchildren were safe. This seemed a bit of a puzzle until I gathered that her knowledge of English geography is a little lacking, when it emerged that she thought that Leeds was a suburb of London.
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All hail the voice of reason that is OFH! There are too many out there who want something for nothing and are not prepared to work hard to get those extra things, normal people have to save for or do without! Or covet from afar, thinking one day, one day!
 
HornArt, I agree with some of the things that you have said, and disagree with other things. This is an emotive subject at present and the full range of views have been expressed, with belief.

I think that Norway was simply trying to help the site out, not individuals, and if you or I were having to moderate some of the hotheads that crop up, not Watford I hasten to add, we would have our hands full. There has never been heavy handed moderation on this site simply because it is not necessary and long may that continue.

We all type things that can be taken the wrong way from time to time, and I know that both of you have the wit to be competent contributors to the site. Norway takes the job seriously and reads huge amounts. Word overload comes to mind.
 
On October 2 1992 the culmination of a riot in Carandiru was that the Polícia Militar entered the prison and shot 102 prisoners; 111 died in total, the balance were prisons killed by their own.

That is how rioters should be dealt with. They choose that path and should accept the consequences.

Why should the rest of us be saddled with the cost of putting this idiocy to rights when the perpetrators will get away with theft, vandalism and as I hear now murder, when right minded people cannot go about their lawful business. I have human rights but they are trampled by those who make a profession of ensuring these "downtrodden" get their rights and more with no contribution to their society or taking responsibility for their actions.
 
You should not worry as soon as the big sports shops have no shoes left these people will all go home.

Like, innit, bruv, yuno wo ever. I heard someone on the news pogram say that and thought he was not English.

Bragi you can not shoot people like that however much you might want to, unless you are a Norwegian loony. Sorry Norway.
 
I am going to give my views on several things.

First of al,l this thread has created a lot of in fighting and there was no need for it. If you dont like the topic of conversation you dont have to join in. Its that simple. We are free to discuss things and do so with very few rules. However, we do listen to what Maltese Mick and SYD say as they run the site as owner and head moderator respectively. Therefore if they ask people not to post new threads about things we will respect that.

Secondly,these are some unofficial house rules; not606 is a Fresh Start for everyone. This means any grievances you may have with other members should be left at the door. So far everyone has been given a fresh start and this has allowed our forum to grow healthily. Insulting fellow Not606'ers is not welcome here and any insulting posts will be removed. If you are unable to post without insulting members then you will be shown the door.

House rules:

-Play nice! Try and be civil to everyone
-Respect everyone's opinions even if you disagree
-Please avoid personal insults ### Any post with an insult towards another member, regardless of its quality, will be removed ###
-No WUM articles (See definition below)
-No accusing people of being WUMs just because their opinion differs to yours.
-Where you make heavy use of material from elsewhere, please say where it came from.
-No Spam posting - meaning repeatedly posting the same content, making multiple threads, or repeatedly advertising a website/service
-Refrain from posting new threads when an existing thread covers the same topic.
-No Racism or other forms of discrimination
-No slanging matches with other users. Either report them or Ignore them!
Wum Articles

A WUM article is any article aimed at provoking a reaction from other users of the forum. Any article containing attacks on an individual, whether a figure in the sport or forum member, is a WUM article. To avoid this, when stating something controversial, please make sure you use some sort of reasoning and logic, ideally with some fact.
Every case will be viewed independently by the Mods.

These are just some unofficial rule which we should all abide by. They are not strictly enforced by any means, but if things do get out of hand then im sure that can change. However, i am sure i speak for Hornette and Norway too when i say we dont want to have to enforce anything.

I would like to expand my points from earlier.

I would change the penal system so that if a person commits a crime we should put them into military training, and if they commit a serious crime they should be shipped out to somewhere and fight for their country. Why should they be allowed to sit in a warm and dry prison getting 3 meals a day and regular exercise as well as being able to get free educations, all at the expense of the tax payers like you and me! The fact that the penal system is so relaxed is part of the reason that in some prisons over 70% of inmates re-offend within a year. It was the case not all that long ago that criminals would have the choice of prison or serve in the army. This does not breach any rights the person has, and gives the honest and hard working men and women a break and the chance to see their families. It also shows them what hard work is and what it is like to do a good days work.

This will sort out the overcrowded prisons and save the tax payer money which could be better spent elsewhere.

If you have any questions feel free to comment here, or even PM me and i will answer them.
 
I think there must be one point we can agree on and that is that the staus quo cannot be allowed to continue, change is needed and needed now (actually overdue). I'm one for curing the cause rather than the symptoms and I feel that the cause here is an erosion of the family unit and parental responsibility being shirked. In order to resolve this parents need to be jointly accountable in law with their children for criminal action. Unfortunately there is an element in society which is beyond saving, historically we have deported this element to penal colonies but we've lost this ability so what to do? Build an encampment say in Luton and fence it off as a ghetto and let the unsaveables rot. Ok put in some form of education/earn your escape system but it'll be tough. Sterilisation of these elements is a must. Add to this a review of the judiciary reintroduce capital punishment and corporal punishment in schools. Get the police forces focused on protecting society instead of grabbing revenues (most prefer to be properly deployed). Our addiction to hedonism needs to be reversed somehow.
Its been picked up elsewhere that communication is key in warfare and this is civil war on a minor scale. In order to counter this a massive investment is required in MI5 and 6, junior units need setting up in the intelligence services and more monitoring/facilitating of blackout of mobile communications.
 
HornArt said:
Norway - I gave it careful consideration and waited quite a while before posting the thread - but happen to have a difference of opinion to you. Is your view more valid than mine as you are Mod? reading Syd's request it seemed he did not want multiple threads on this on each site - and you can contain it to one.

Unlike me you have the power to delete my thread and posts so you are in ultimate control. I have not seen anyone other than you argue against this thread - to me it is better to have it in one place where people bored with the topic can ignore it. When it is in the Nest we cannot. What is the point in having threads if everything has to go into just one?

Shall we just agree to differ and remian on good terms :)
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Horn Art my apologies in the time scales in getting back to you but I do work odd shift patterns ,and as far as I am concerned we are on good terms (even if you make life a touch harder today;))
 
Just how much that has happened over the past few nights has come about because of the wall to wall coverage given by TV? The idiots in London are seen by the idiots elsewhere, who simply copy what they have seen. Should there actually be a news blackout when incidences such as these start?

We are supposed to have a free press, a right to free speech and a right to live our lives in the way that suits us, yet sometimes for the greater good should we be prepared to fore go some of those rights and freedoms?
 
HornArt said:
and thank you Norway for not just deleting it - I still believe that debating it on its own thread is preferable to mixing it in with the Nest. No-one who is not inclined needs read this thread but we all want to read the Nest.
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Went against the wishes of Site owner and and the Boss mod ! The site at the moment is trying to expand into other news and media arenas , I dont what a thread being picked up and shown on Newsnow of lots of watford fans being unable to be civil to one another! , That is one of the main reasons I asked for it to be contained within the confines of the nest! There are a lot of other things going on with various upgrades , like the phone app improvements , but if Mick is busy firefighting other problems these improvements will be delayed !
Art I am not a power crazed muppet , but I am trying to do what is best for the continued growth of the site and this board !
 
Norwayhornet said:
Guys this is getting a little heated and i am meant to be working , take a deep breath and agree to disagree! This is the main reason why I didnt want this out of the nest , because here its openly labelled for all to see us bickering !
Art I ,m sorry but if further abuse between members as opposed to reasoned discussion I will lock this thread!till I have had a chance to talk to Dan!

Charlie , NNW both valued members , deep breath time guys go back to the nest ,shake hands like the grown men you are !
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Norway I am sorry I had to leave prior to any reply to NNW and I take on board what you say and totally agree so I will openly appoligise to NNW.

'NNW I at no time meant that you sponged off of your parents in fact reading your response I applaud yours and your Brothers commitment to your family to ensure you pay a fair amount towards your keep and assisting your Parents to pay for the larger property obviously to be able to comfortable house both you and your brother. I made an error when putting down the figures which I have now amended on my original text. The house was 19,400 and I borrowed 2,000. I can assure you it was a struggle and you probably have more luxuries in your bedroom than we had in the whole house. At the time I was also out in the streets of Brixton fighting rioters (much like at present) and looters, who I believe then did have a grievance, without any protective clothing, shields just ourselves.

I appoligise if I have caused you any distress and personal insult which was not intended. I'm pleased you feel you are more elequant than I but your comment I still disagree with.

I will post a message to both Norway & NNW directing them to this Post. I also appoligise to all who read this forum if my views have caused offence and upset the harmony of the group.
 
wear_yellow said:
But Life never means life these days. What needs to happen is exemplary sentences handed down even for 1st offences. Instead we will get the hand-wringing, cord wearing, Guardian reading liberals pleading that the poor little dears are misunderstood and were never breast feed by their mothers. Reality is that it is the careers of these soft-**** Liberals to do this - they work in Social Work, Charities, Youth Centres etc and if all these scum were locked up they would have no "clients" and thus no job!

There is nothing to stop the Police arresting and charging these scum and then holding them in remand. Hopefully with the jails full in London, they will be shipped out to remote towns and cities - a couple of months in Dartmoor or Parkhurst would get them thinking.
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I'm guessing you're a Telegraph or a Mail reader w_y, that's the sort of drivel I associate with those papers. 'Liberals'? <laugh>

Maybe it's our incompetent government and Police force that are to blame?

It's a lot easier beating up students isn't it...
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Just how much that has happened over the past few nights has come about because of the wall to wall coverage given by TV? The idiots in London are seen by the idiots elsewhere, who simply copy what they have seen. Should there actually be a news blackout when incidences such as these start?

We are supposed to have a free press, a right to free speech and a right to live our lives in the way that suits us, yet sometimes for the greater good should we be prepared to fore go some of those rights and freedoms?
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Blimey Frenchie radical thoughts ! also when you think about not a bad idea , but am sure the lefties will see it as further erosion of their rights and freedoms!
If senior policeman are calling it copycat rioting!! However curtailing the tv coverage wouldnt be enough in this age ,somehow you would have to curtail sites like fb and youtube as well
I doubt it would happen as the press would scream blue murder anyway! ,but a very thought provoking post none the less!
 
To me this thread was necessary and is useful. It contains a good debate of honest opinions forcefully put. Maybe some of us could have held back our language once or twice but you could say that on many many other threads. This one has had few serious rude words :) or name calling.

I repeat my disagreement that Moderators should decide what we the Watford forum personnel want to discuss. If noone wanted to discuss this or agreed it should be "hidden" in the Nest they would post there not here. 60 postings means it was a worthwhile discussion. When we moved from 606 we were pleased to leave the Moderators and their views on what we should and should not discuss behind. I am not here to serve Mick or Syd's wishes but to discuss with fellow reasonalbe people topical issues mainly related to football and not to promote Apps and other fancy technology. The site grew fast in the early days with very wide ranging discussions - that helped it to thrive and I hope this thread does too - I like not606 and want it to thrive - but not at the expense of being told what to write and what not to.

I applaud the Moderators though for allowing freedom of speech even though they may not agree.
 
I saw some films of the riots in England yesterday and I was surprised no one has talked about this point. The people speaking were not speaking English, there is the problem they do not understand the policemen talking to them and the police also do not understand the answers.

There was something else but if I say that I will be banned from the board for not being correct politically.
 
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