Riot thread

[Toby]

I'm sorry, but I don't really blame the police on this one... the 'foot patrol' ones, anyway. If there are about 10-15 of you, and 50-100 people in front of you, with an assortment of weapons, I wouldn't want to charge in, and what help will it do if half of you get injured - it will only flare up violence against people rather than property!

Each night escalated considerably, but there was no way of knowing if it would, and by how much! Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

How many 'bobbies' has these cuts actually taken down from the front line? Fair enough if you are talking dozens on each force, but if you are talking the Met has lost a couple, then those people would have made little difference!

London is one of the most heavily policed cities in the world, there were not more than 1000 rioters, surely this could be dealt with? Not on the first night maybe, but it was obviously going to continue, why not prevent it? It doesn't take three days to mobilise the force they had out last night.

As I said earlier, it's easier to beat up students than people that are actually going to fight back. Their job is to defend us against crime!! If this had happened under Gordon Brown's watch we would never have heard the end of it, luckily Dave has his friends in the right places...

 

[HaslemereKev]

Well, unfortunately Mr Brown got completely screwed over, in my opinion - by Mr Blair. Blair jumped ship and Brown was left in a position he just couldn't win! The decline had started and he was almost the scapegoat of it all.

As for the police - it's crazy that it takes the Gov't coming back to be able to imobolise them... I'm sure the police chiefs didn't want to have to send out so few police into the streets, but it seems their hands were tied.

I'd suggest there was plenty of naivity about how this would go - I think they just thought (or hoped) the rioters wouldn't bother after the first night. There was no real way of knowing these kid would jump on the band wagon and cause such chaos.

So where do we go now then? Do we send 16,000 police into London every night now? For how long?

 

[Toby]

Well, unfortunately Mr Brown got completely screwed over, in my opinion - by Mr Blair. Blair jumped ship and Brown was left in a position he just couldn't win! The decline had started and he was almost the scapegoat of it all.

As for the police - it's crazy that it takes the Gov't coming back to be able to imobolise them... I'm sure the police chiefs didn't want to have to send out so few police into the streets, but it seems their hands were tied.

I'd suggest there was plenty of naivity about how this would go - I think they just thought (or hoped) the rioters wouldn't bother after the first night. There was no real way of knowing these kid would jump on the band wagon and cause such chaos.

So where do we go now then? Do we send 16,000 police into London every night now? For how long?

If it had been done on the 2nd night, this whole mess would have calmed down a lot quicker. There's no need to fill the streets every night from now on, the Police just need to know that they can't let it escalate again like that.

 

[Charlie Livesey was my hero]

London is one of the most heavily policed cities in the world, there were not more than 1000 rioters, surely this could be dealt with? Not on the first night maybe, but it was obviously going to continue, why not prevent it? It doesn't take three days to mobilise the force they had out last night.

As I said earlier, it's easier to beat up students than people that are actually going to fight back. Their job is to defend us against crime!! If this had happened under Gordon Brown's watch we would never have heard the end of it, luckily Dave has his friends in the right places...

Toby obviously you don't know much about the police constraints (budget etc) The MPS (Metropolitan Police service) employed 52,111 personnel. This included 33,258 sworn police officers, 4,226 Special Constables, 14,332 civilian police staff, and 4,520 non-sworn Police Community Support Officers. Of the 33,258 sworn police officers about 2/3rds arespecially employed that leaves about 11,000 to police the streets. These officers work 4 shifts which leaves just under 3,000 police officers (of which usually 1/3rd are off due to sickness, annual leave etc) Leaving about 2,000 Police men of all ranks to police the whole of Greater London.

You've got about 1,000 rioters how do you expect the 2,000 police officers to deal with this? Leave all of the streets of London unprotected, ignore the dead and dying in Road Accidents etc unattended or just try and contain the areas effected until help can be arranged?

Lets not forget the worst was Sunday night when the service is at it's shortest in way of personell. Last nuight the police had the man power in London - No riots (enough said)

 

[Toby]

Toby obviously you don't know much about the police constraints (budget etc) The MPS (Metropolitan Police service) employed 52,111 personnel. This included 33,258 sworn police officers, 4,226 Special Constables, 14,332 civilian police staff, and 4,520 non-sworn Police Community Support Officers. Of the 33,258 sworn police officers about 2/3rds arespecially employed that leaves about 11,000 to police the streets. These officers work 4 shifts which leaves just under 3,000 police officers (of which usually 1/3rd are off due to sickness, annual leave etc) Leaving about 2,000 Police men of all ranks to police the whole of Greater London.

You've got about 1,000 rioters how do you expect the 2,00 police officers to deal with this? Leave all of the streets of London unprotected, ignore the dead and dying in Road Accidents etc unattended or just try and contain the areas effected until help can be arranged?

Lets not forget the worst was Sunday night when the service is at it's shortest in way of personell. Last nuight the police had the man power in London - No riots (enough said)

So isn't that just more proof that the government are to blame for underfunding the Police force? As I said it's understandable that they were unprepared for the 1st night, but after that with enough organisation they should have been able to mobilise enough officers. I still think it was allowed to happen to give the Police more leverage when it comes to fighting the cuts.

 

[Charlie Livesey was my hero]

Too true but I can assure you it takes more than 24hours when everybody is away on holiday including the Government. They took their opportunity and I think you'll find we will probably see this fizzle out. That is uuntil August Bank Holiday - then perhaps Nottinghill might kick off.

 

[Norwayhornet]

Wonder if that might be cancelled !

 

[Charlie Livesey was my hero]

doubt it too much money invested

 

[Al the Hornet]

So isn't that just more proof that the government are to blame for underfunding the Police force? As I said it's understandable that they were unprepared for the 1st night, but after that with enough organisation they should have been able to mobilise enough officers. I still think it was allowed to happen to give the Police more leverage when it comes to fighting the cuts.

Are you serious? allowed to happen! You are having a laugh surely, how can you sit there and say that! no one could have predicted the amount of idiots that would riot and loot and for what reason! Senseless morons with nothing better to do and as for the copycats round the Country, don't get me started.

 

[Toby]

Are you serious? allowed to happen! You are having a laugh surely, how can you sit there and say that! no one could have predicted the amount of idiots that would riot and loot and for what reason! Senseless morons with nothing better to do and as for the copycats round the Country, don't get me started.

Dave was too busy to do anything:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14442611

Even racist Boris doesn't agree with the cut in Police budgets:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...lls-for-police-cuts-plan-rethink-2335196.html

More could have been done to stop the riots, every day they were predicted yet no real measures were taken until last night.

 

[Al the Hornet]

Why oh why did I bother to comment on this thread, it took one idiot and I bit, I am going for e lie down in a darkened room and then I will not be seen on this thread again!!!!!

 

[Toby]

Why oh why did I bother to comment on this thread, it took one idiot and I bit, I am going for e lie down in a darkened room and then I will not be seen on this thread again!!!!!

One idiot? Well done Al, showing yourself for what you are...

You're not needed on here anyways

 

[Norwayhornet]

Cool it guys ! Lets not kick off again !

 

[Norwayhornet]

No one is an idiot for having a differing opinion , be well boring if we all thought the same !

 

[Toby]

Al decided to jump in and insult me, shows how mature he is

 

[HaslemereKev]

I'd suggest this is why Norway didn't want it's own thread!

It's a very emotional subject where everyone has their own views on the cause and solution. Who's to say who is correct and who is wrong. Different parenting, schooling etc will bias our views one way or the other! I think most of us are lucky enough to have avoided being directly effected, but expect a lot know someone who has. For example, my niece works in London so I worry about her every evening.... especially where it seems her employer doesn't seem to give a crap, and is more interested in staying open for a few more sales!

The country has been rotting for a long time and it cannot afford to buy itself out of trouble... but we are not the only country with this problem and there is no magic wand to wave to make it all right!

What are the solutions? Whatever it is, it has to run from the top right down to the very bottom, but the people who break the law must be held accountable for their actions. We have the extremes of a 'Battle Royale' scenario (the film) down to a 5 minute plea to a judge saying "sorry, but it's not my fault" and get off with a £50 fine!

 

[babyhornetdan]

I repeat my disagreement that Moderators should decide what we the Watford forum personnel want to discuss. If noone wanted to discuss this or agreed it should be "hidden" in the Nest they would post there not here. 60 postings means it was a worthwhile discussion. When we moved from 606 we were pleased to leave the Moderators and their views on what we should and should not discuss behind. I am not here to serve Mick or Syd's wishes but to discuss with fellow reasonalbe people topical issues mainly related to football and not to promote Apps and other fancy technology. The site grew fast in the early days with very wide ranging discussions - that helped it to thrive and I hope this thread does too - I like not606 and want it to thrive - but not at the expense of being told what to write and what not to.

Art, the fact that there are so few rules on the site should tell you the intentions of Mick and Syd. They want a site where people are free to debate, as the header says. It is very rare that we have requests from either of them, but asking for riot threads to be kept to a minimum is not such a big request. They aren't saying not to discuss it at all, but we dont need things cluttering the site up and giving the impression we are all mindless morons.

Actually you have not written most of the posts on here and if you had written none the debate would not have suffered too much. Did 30 odd posts cause you so much time? Reading your profile you spend 99% or more time on here anyway. Before you Modded the site there were disagreements that resolved themselves as they tend to do here because we are reasonable people - please do not see yourself as quite so essential. I will respect Mick and Syd's views but not just do everything they say. In what way would you job have been easier yesterday if this debate were contained within the Nest? I resent you keep picking on me and telling me what to do - I am aware you do not agree with me - but if you feel I have overstepped the mark then ban me - or better still politely ask me to leave - I will do so if that is what you want

Why are you picking a fight and argument over a comment which was clearly meant in jest?? There is no need to. None of the three Mods on this board see ourselves as essential or even as higher or better than anyone else. As explained we simply make sure nothing gets out of hand, which things could well have in the past. If things are discussed in the nest they tend to be watered down because other conversations go on around it. We are not telling you what to do, we are simply passing on a polite request from the sites owner and head mod.

 

[Spurs61]

Dan - it is a good site - I like it - despite the fact I seem to be given horns (no pun intended) by a few here - I admire and respect just about everyone who posts - I don't agree with lots but that is why we can have discussions. I don't want a fight but think back to any time in your past when everyone seemed to be criticising not only what you say but putting words in your mouth - it makes you get a wee bit defensive doesn't it? This is one thread for goodness sake - and a good one in my opinion it is not cluttering up anything - it is sparing the Nest from some of the comments here in fact. Oh and Charlie seemed to think I was getting 250 points for this thread or something - I don't want any points - I don't look at points so take them away and give them to him please if you can.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Please HornArt, I have been out all day and come back to find you still trying to make your point. It is a bit like a dog with a bone, keeps shaking it because it doesn't realise that the bone is already dead. I think you have made us realise your postion, can you find a different way of letting us know about the riots and not about the site and people on it.

 

[emiatss]

Hi all, I read the first few posts and the last few posts, and I've come to the conclusion that this article should never have been put up. Members on this forum are from different ideological backgrounds, with a common interest in supported the same football club as a form of escapism. So when discussion is on the football, we are all in agreement and get along. However, once the news trespasses onto this, ideologies clash, and there are silly arguments with people we don't even know. Come on guys, grow up.