Utter bollocks.....just carry on blaming everyone else except those that cause this mayhem and it will continue. This is an insult to all hard working decent people who choose to improve themselves by their own endeavours and not by clinging onto the state and if that does not yield enough new mobile phones, trainers and LCD TV's, then go out robbing... Blimey, the hypocrisy on here is outstanding....
You do appear to be implying that all of those people rioting are in fact living from the State. Something which,as far as I know, has not yet been proved - there may indeed be hard working people amongst them as well ! What I am saying here is not that we can blame society for everything - obviously there comes a point where all people must bare responsibility for their own actions - however, the idea that all people can improve their lot by their own endeavours is not born out by statistical analysis which shows a remarkably sluggish rate of social mobility in all western countries. Show me one millionaire who came by their money without inheritance, criminal activity, dodgy speculations or tax evation ! Of course those involved need to be punished - but at the same time we cannot lose sight of the larger picture of society. In Britain we have the worst figures of teenage binge drinking in Europe. Children being treated for alcoholic poisoning at ages of 10,11 or 12 - is it all their fault ? We also have 3 times more teenage pregnancies than other European countries - can we focus all of this on the individual ? Or do we come to the conclusion that we are failing our youth in some way ?
Fantastic post cologne!! I agree that the class divide is a big issue in why a lot of these things happen. However, there are a lot of people out there who use that excuse and hind behind that logic to continue to leech off the state and the hard working men and women. I am not saying I am a saint but since I was fired from my job (for my own stupidity, no one else's) I have not claimed a penny yet I am more than entitled to. I just would prefer to stand on my own two feet and support myself as my parents and grandparents did! There is a member of my family who refused to work for 20 years and claimed every benefit she could, whilst having an affair and getting maintenance from he father of the two kids resulting from it. There was no reason she could not work, it was just easier not to and she got more money on the benefits. The government make it too easy to sit and not work but and arse to get into work and then you get charged an arm and a leg in tax for the privilege. I understand the shock tactics did not work under the thatcher regime but in the 50's it did work. If you want an example of what I mean type "Bad lads army" into YouTube and watch some videos. They took criminals and lazy gits and made them work and it opened their eyes. I think this would work even with today's teens and 20-30 year olds as it is them who are the major offenders. Oh and welcome to the site!!
What a load of rubbish, I know a few honest millionaires who started with nothing, some educated to degree and postgrad and one was a panel beater. Honest well placed endeavour works.
Can you remind me of Maggies shock tactics, I don't recall them apart from a pretty effective raid on the falklands. Hard line with that commie criminal scargill worked to rid the country of an inefficient industry, if we'd been harder on BL earlier we'd still have a decent British owned car industry. Look into the corruption of that eminent labour leader of the time whilst at Uni (I was at the same uni a few years later and heard of his exploits). Stop blaming society and government, they provide a framework which for the most part is effective and I agree is not perfect but the vast majority of this problem is from the family and yes the national lottery, big brother, katie price fame and fortune culture. Oops shouldnt use that word culture for this total lack of culture.
I can improve my lot through endeavour; others on this board clearly can; whether everyone can is beyond proof unless they can all be shown to have tried. Nor is their any agreed measure of what constitutes endeavour. I was brought up being told hard work never hurt anyone, but, like most proverbial sayings, it represents a commonly held belief not a fact.
I can only go on what i have been told and heard about the Thatcher regime as i was not around for it, being born in 1991. But if i am incorrect please let me know and i will apologise. I am simply blaming the government for making it too easy to sit on benefits and not work. I am not saying it is their fault there are riots on the streets of london. In fact i have had very little that i have not praised about the current government. Whilst i dont agree on cutting the number of soldiers (they should end the war!!) and cutting benefits to those who need them and are doing the best they can, they need to toughen up the system and prevent people scamming the system and leeching off of it. I am very happy with the cutting of managers and red tape in the NHS and the shift in the focus on getting more nurses on wards.
I lived through the Maggie years and as Norway can testify I was pretty far to the left in those days but then I experienced life and grew up! Even though we had problems with high unemployment, the nuclear threat and when I was at Uni the severe cutting of grants I never rioted. I was apalled at the time when I did go on a student march which ended in a park in Cardiff where we were adressed by some ANC representatives. They were sp;outing about how we should take up arms and topple our evil regime. It was at that point I left and started to leave the left!! There have always been those who incite violence but I fear the current generation are more vulnerable as we havent taught them proper values.
I genuinely think that a lot of this is just because people dont have the words to express their anger so they turn to violence. There was a person on BBC news who claimed he condoned the riots because the Polish community were taking jobs and that he could not get a job. But when the reporter pointed out that looting shops and destroying local shops is only going to prevent investment, he just shouted whatever!!
I think you can partition these "rioters" into a couple of groups. 1) Criminals who before this have been living a life of crime outside the law. These are involved in drugs, gangs etc and used the opportunity to expand their activity. 2) Youths caught up in the culture of have what you want without working for it and society will turn a blind eye anyway. The second group are the majority and are also the ones who are easy to deter/turn back to normality. The former are the ones who need hard action. How to diferentiate, well thats a problem.
I think that depends on your definition of young person, anyone over the age of 16 should know better than to get involved and their parents should not let them out to get involved in it. There have been pictures and reports of children as young as 12/13 being involved, and yes they are very easily influenced, but why the hell arent their parents keeping them at home and preventing them getting involved. There was an 11 year old in court for christ sake!! I would bet his family were in the mob too!!! I do agree with you there though. Hard action is needed against the serial offenders, and i dont just mean 5 years in a B+B they call a prison these days.
I'm waiting with baited breath for the news of the first 20 to life sentence to be handed down. Need to be a few, the murderer who mowed down the 3 should get life as life and the firesetters would be a good start to get 20s, as you say though not in a hotel, it needs to be hard labour, it'd cost but how about they are taken under army guard to somewhere like Angola and made to do community enhancing projects. These people need to be taught how well off they are and also to see the pleasure they can both give and get by positive instead of destructive action.
I suspect that I have been politically aware before most on here for obvious reasons. Having been brought up in the aftermath of the second world war, times were tough for most people as the country struggled to get back on it's feet. My father worked seven days a week to provide for us and it was instilled into me that you could not expect to be given things on a plate, you had to work for them. In 1964 the Wilson government came to power and many of the social benefits were increased to such an extent that the "don't work, better off living on the dole" culture was created. Many others measures also came about, easier divorce for example, that started to erode the family. Many people were living in poor housing, but with a real sense of community. These were razed to the ground and people who had been used to talking to their neighbours over the fence, suddenly found themselves in high rise blocks of flats. This I believe is where some of the ills of the modern society began. Somehow at that time people were lead to believe that they had a right to certain worldly goods, rather than getting out and working for them.
This is some excellent stuff here tonight very thought provoking ! so much better than recent evenings! Whats happened riot wise tonight are the authorities regaining control ? Are our political leaders coming up with any good ideas?(well I can hope)!
The latest i heard was pockets of resistance, but nothing compared to other nights. I think the message is starting to sink in now and people are starting to think twice.
THFT Dan Never seen a countrywide leave of senses before ,like this , in the UK , Have worked in Israel , lebonan , syria, at dodgy times !when madness led to major loss of life ! I would hate to see the UK going down a similar road!
