Rick Skelton on Bruce errors

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tigercity

tigercity

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Lyon, France
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/19/three-mistakes-steve-bruce-made-as-hull-lost-at-norwich-4268410/

I went with a slightly different line - why not Faye direct replacement for Chester? Bruce changed formation and it threw them

I also callled for Meyler to add steel and fight

Bruce tried to be positive at the end and put on Fryatt but let's be honest we weren't on top and a point would have been fair dinkum, swapping a striker for a midfielder (Koren) gave the midfield away even more.

Figeuroa needs dropping, he's our only WC rep but is out of form.
 
I'd agree to some extent. The first 10 minutes we looked organised and passing flowed fairly well with everyone (inckuding Koren) looking quite sharp. The injury hit that.

A) 442 is a logical change when a CB gets injured but we didn't have the midfield on the pitch to make it work. The right was fine, with Rosenior and Elmo, but Koren isn't a good option on the left side as he drifts in and leaves Figueroa unprotected. We need a left sided midfielder (ie. Quinn, Brady or Boyd) on the pitch for 4411/442.

B) Changing formation 3-4 times through a game clearly confuses players and leaves them unsure of who to mark, as Rosenior seemed to indicate after the game. One change (eg. at 60 minutes when you make 2 subs) isn't the same as you've had a half time talk to drill in the possible switch and changing at once with subs passing on instructions to those concerned makes it fairly seemless but 3 changes in one half got messy.

It's easy to use hindsight but whether Fig or Faye coming on it probably would've been wiser to stay 352 with minimal change the rest of the half. Then, in the second half, bring Koren off for Boyd/Quinn to go 4 at the back in an organised change if the back 3 wasn't working.

We know with Koren that he can be effective playing off a striker or in that space between midfield and the forward. Throw him out onto the wing, where defensive support to the fullback is just as important as getting crosses in, and he is far less effective. He's almost a luxury player the way Geo was, just with different playstyles.
 
To be fair half the reason it failed was Fig was terrible on the left leading to a re-shuffle back to 3-5-2, which I'm not sure you can entirely blame Bruce for.
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
On another day, those same tactics could have delivered a win, draw or loss.

If you recall the previous Norwich game, Figgie had Snodgrass in his pocket the whole game.
Obviously Bruce was aware of his recent lack of form, hence his relegation to the bench but with Macca out injured, clearly he fancied Figgue could do a better job than Faye. (We've hardly seen Faye this seasion, so who knows whether his form is off).

My point is everyone including Bruce can look back and wish we'd tried something different, but no-one knows whether the assumed changes would have made the result better or worse.

With hindsight yesterday, you could argue that Huddlestone should have been dropped.
Now imagine had Bruce done that, and we'd still have lost...?
 
tigercity said:
Bruce tried to be positive at the end and put on Fryatt but let's be honest we weren't on top and a point would have been fair dinkum, swapping a striker for a midfielder (Koren) gave the midfield away even more.
Click to expand...

But Koren had been playing as a striker after Sagbo went off anyway, so the formation was no different when Fryatt replaced him.

SydneyTiger14 said:
To be fair half the reason it failed was Fig was terrible on the left leading to a re-shuffle back to 3-5-2, which I'm not sure you can entirely blame Bruce for.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not entirely, as Figgy deserves much blame - but Bruce was the man who brought him on instead of Faye.

Personally I think Faye is a bloody legend and would love to see him in there for these tight away games.
 
I agree with most of what he said. Switching formation after the injury gave Norwich the momentum, until Chester went off there only seemed one side in it, and that was us.
 
Harsh to blame Bruce if the team don't turn up..

Brucie will have to earn his corn by kicking some backsides...

ps...I have always backed Koren against the knockers.....But he was awful, who the hell was the pass to that led to their free kick in front of the box that led to Thud getting his first card?
Figgy was exposed time and time again. Snodgrass had him tied in knots.
 
I reckon Bruce won't make the same mistakes again anytime soon. I think our midfield 3 should be Meyler, Thudd & Livermore every game (in a 3-5-2). Meyler was a big miss yesterday, I know he spends a lot of time on his ass but that's because he's always putting tackles in, something Koren does not do. Plus he gets forward to link up the play with the forwards. Faye in for Chester would have been my choice also...with the amount of corners they had he would have kept their forwards in check.

Does Thudd miss the cup game due to the red or the game at Palace?

For Palace

...............McGregor..............
Rosie.....Faye......Davies.......Figgy
Elmo....Meyler....Livermore...Boyd
...............Sagbo/Long..............
.....................Jelly.................
 
GCTiger said:
Does Thudd miss the cup game due to the red or the game at Palace?

For Palace

...............McGregor..............
Rosie.....Faye......Davies.......Figgy
Elmo....Meyler....Livermore...Boyd
...............Sagbo/Long..............
.....................Jelly.................
Click to expand...

He misses the cup game only - so you may want to rethink that XI...
 
GCTiger said:
I reckon Bruce won't make the same mistakes again anytime soon. I think our midfield 3 should be Meyler, Thudd & Livermore every game (in a 3-5-2). Meyler was a big miss yesterday, I know he spends a lot of time on his ass but that's because he's always putting tackles in, something Koren does not do. Plus he gets forward to link up the play with the forwards. Faye in for Chester would have been my choice also...with the amount of corners they had he would have kept their forwards in check.

Does Thudd miss the cup game due to the red or the game at Palace?

For Palace

...............McGregor..............
Rosie.....Faye......Davies.......Figgy
Elmo....Meyler....Livermore...Boyd
...............Sagbo/Long..............
.....................Jelly.................
Click to expand...

Sarfend game.
 
Tuckin said:
He misses the cup game only - so you may want to rethink that XI...
Click to expand...

Thank **** for that!!! He didn't have a great game yesterday but no one did...except maybe Rosie/Davies

Bruce and Thudd in...Boyd out...and Rosie (harsh) 3-5-2. We looked proper gash in a 4-4-2 yesterday.
 
Assuming Chester's hamstring injury is similar to last time and he'll be out a month or two I'd look at this for the next few league games.

442:


McGregor
Rosenior - Bruce - Davies - Figueroa
Elmo - Livermore - Huddlestone - Boyd
Jelavic - Sagbo
​
​

352:


McGregor
Bruce - Faye - Davies
Elmo - Livermore - Huddlestone - Meyler - Rosenior
Jelavic - Sagbo
​
​

In both cases I'm assuming McShane is still injured and Long will be on the bench the first game back from whetever little knock he has. Until then Jelavic is the main striker around the box with Sagbo doing his work dragging defenders around and giving their back line a hard time.

Right now I'd only want Fig at left back with a left sided midfielder in front of him. If we go 352 I think he has to stay benched - at least for now. Rosenior needs to start in either case, you can see how driven he's been every chance he's been given despite having to watch half our games from the sidelines.

Similarly I like Meyler in a 3 man midfield but don't feel he quite has the touch to play in a central pair, the way Livermore and Huddlestone do.
 
I thought Huddlestone off for Meyler and Koren off for Boyd were the two subs that should have been made - Sagbo was the one player who was still running at their defenders, and Bruce brought him off. Huddlestone was having a mare, and Meyler on would have added a bit more bite in the tackle to a midfield that was almost anonymous.
 
dazzar86 said:
I thought Huddlestone off for Meyler and Koren off for Boyd were the two subs that should have been made - Sagbo was the one player who was still running at their defenders, and Bruce brought him off. Huddlestone was having a mare, and Meyler on would have added a bit more bite in the tackle to a midfield that was almost anonymous.
Click to expand...

Unless through injury, can you ever see Bruce subbing Thudd?
 
jayc89 said:
Unless through injury, can you ever see Bruce subbing Thudd?
Click to expand...

Not really no, but no player should have special treatment - if you're playing crap, you're playing crap.

His corners were terrible, his passing was off, he kept getting caught in possession - when you're having an off-day, nothing comes off - so may as well have brought him off to try an settle for a point.
 
originallambrettaman said:
Starting Koren was definitely was a mistake and that's not hindsight, it's what everyone was saying when they heard the team sheet.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, especially in a away fixture which was going to be a tight battle for points considering the position Norwich are in, thought he would have gone for Meyler or Quinn or even Boyd for their work rate and closing down.
 
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